Talk-Polywell.org

MSimon wrote: BTW I'm as sure as sure can be - that all the Islamic countries have been told: use a nuke anywhere in the world against any one and (.... name your city) gets it. Let the jihadis do it for you and we will accept no denials. So you had better keep an eye on them.

That's fair enough, a small bunch of terrorists working in isolation could not develop a nuclear weapon anyway, such an operation could only be accomplished with the aid of a sovereign nation.

But 9/11 and snipers are different, and Tom, Dick and Harry can do that if they wanted to (most don't want to), you can't arbrarily hold Saudi Arabia responsible for crimes perpertrated by individuals that happen to be muslim.

Nothing wrong with keeping an eye on people, but making insanely broad and sweeping threats is not the way to go.

The Saudis are responsible for the vast majority of "home grown" terrorists in America.

And I think our Brit friends would say the same about their island.

MSimon wrote:The Saudis are responsible for the vast majority of "home grown" terrorists in America.

And I think our Brit friends would say the same about their island.

You mean by funding mosques and then using that as an in to ensure that the Islam taught there is according to Saudi ideology?

The Saudis are responsible for the vast majority of "home grown" terrorists in America.

Yeah and Bush sold them the security of your harbors. Hillarious!

You mean by funding mosques and then using that as an in to ensure that the Islam taught there is according to Saudi ideology?

Osama bin Laden is saudi.

jmc wrote:

MSimon wrote:The Saudis are responsible for the vast majority of "home grown" terrorists in America.

And I think our Brit friends would say the same about their island.

You mean by funding mosques and then using that as an in to ensure that the Islam taught there is according to Saudi ideology?

Yes. And what Skipjack said too.

Now one has to understand that a lot of what is happening in the muslim world is not just a religious problem, but also a nationality problem. I think it has in part to do with how the usual suspects decided to draw borders in the region and to split up things among then... until they left.

Every now and then my dad will talk to one of the many arab newspaper or flower sellers that come into pubs and restaurants here in the evenings.
He likes doing that, just to see what they let out. It is a kind of getting a feeling for the enemy if you want it that way. Well, one thing is for sure, many of them want an arab state, an arab nation. They all learn arabic through reading the koran. They do have the same religion and genetically they are all related anyway (semites).
Also funny, when the name "Saud" falls during a conversation, you will often see a "knife to neck"- gesture by these people. The saud family is not very popular, at least not among certain parts of the arab society.
There is a lot going on there behind the veil (pun intended) of islam and arabic terror. Religion is in some way used to make people do what those in charge want them to do. Terrorism and the whole "hate Israel" thingy is, IMHO just a side effect of all that. A lot of it is for show. It keeps them distracted and in line.
The question is, what can be done to change that?

Commerce and dialog. Chlorine in the pool.

jmc wrote:

MSimon wrote:BTW I'm as sure as sure can be - that all the Islamic countries have been told: use a nuke anywhere in the world against any one and (.... name your city) gets it. Let the jihadis do it for you and we will accept no denials. So you had better keep an eye on them.

That's fair enough, a small bunch of terrorists working in isolation could not develop a nuclear weapon anyway, such an operation could only be accomplished with the aid of a sovereign nation.

Actually I sort of doubt Simon is correct. Our elites do not want to think about the consequences of a nuke, and are ignoring the potential for all its worth. The informal "Axis of Evil" still exists, and one or more of the cities in those states probably gets "elected" and pasted if/when a nuke goes off in a Western city, but if it is jihadis who set off said bomb, I doubt the true source of the contagion is hit. 15 of 19.

Skipjack wrote:

The Saudis are responsible for the vast majority of "home grown" terrorists in America.

Yeah and Bush sold them the security of your harbors. Hillarious!

And flew the possibly-involved-with-911 wife of the Saudi Ambassador out of the US post haste after 911 on a specially cleared flight. Oh well... at least our politicians are honest; they stay bought.

Skipjack wrote:Osama bin Laden is saudi.

Technically he's Yemeni.

Yeah and Bush sold them the security of your harbors. Hillarious!

&

And flew the possibly-involved-with-911 wife of the Saudi Ambassador out of the US post haste after 911 on a specially cleared flight. Oh well... at least our politicians are honest; they stay bought.

Yeah guys, sure. BTW, fire doesn't melt steel either, and we never landed on the moon.

"Chlorine in the pool."

Commerce and dialog with them are fertilizer to their madness. They want our money to pay for their upkeep and expansion with our own productivity. Dialog they dismiss.

High explosives and metal at a km or so per sec are chlorine in the pool.

You mean the same way commerce and dialog with China's feeding their madness? That's because it's BS commerce and especially BS dialog. BS to stay on oil and BS to buy cheap chinese crap that funds their regime. Because people are too complacent e.g. to call China's inhumane transgressions for what they are or their cheap products as crappy knockoffs. I don't say dialog and commerce in some money grabbing at all costs sense. I mean call things as they are and leverage that dialog with commercial power.

Of course that ain't happening because there's no such unilateral accord on all fronts of diplomacy (economic, political, cultural, tourist, scientific, etc) with these countries. And because no one has the balls or patience to actually tie everything together, from abstract ethics to concrete policy. And because the average joe just couldn't be arsed to care that much and be that thorough about something so "out of sight" (& so out of mind); there's no public support for such a thing.

Chlorine in the pool because there's nothing left but undeniable reason when you set things so that only the fittest arguments survive. Women in bondage, kiddie sweatshops and so on, wouldn't survive. "Cultural tradition" is a sorry excuse for tolerating them.

High explosives and metal at a km or so per sec are chlorine in the pool.

Running with the broken analogy - show me a pool that effectively survives kps-HE&M.

Swaat shops are the traditional way for a country in poverty to get out of poverty. The alternative being relatively primitive farming.

Self government becomes possible for a people not in poverty. Wealth gives leisure.

As to cheap junk. It was synonymous with Japan in the 50s. I used to have a lot of cheap wind up toys made out of beer can stampings when I was a kid.

The Chinese make better (and more useful) cheap junk.

I go somewhat out of my way to NOT by Chinese products. Until they stop their continued attacks on our internet structure, I figure we are at cyber-war with them and I have no desire to feed the enemy. Sometimes, however, the mindless consumers bred by the progressive program have pushed all reasonable alternatives off the market, and only Chinese cr@p remains. Dag nabit!

KitemanSA wrote:I go somewhat out of my way to NOT by Chinese products. Until they stop their continued attacks on our internet structure, I figure we are at cyber-war with them and I have no desire to feed the enemy. Sometimes, however, the mindless consumers bred by the progressive program have pushed all reasonable alternatives off the market, and only Chinese cr@p remains. Dag nabit!

The price is right.

MSimon wrote:Swaat shops are the traditional way for a country in poverty to get out of poverty. The alternative being relatively primitive farming.

Self government becomes possible for a people not in poverty. Wealth gives leisure.

As to cheap junk. It was synonymous with Japan in the 50s. I used to have a lot of cheap wind up toys made out of beer can stampings when I was a kid.

The Chinese make better (and more useful) cheap junk.

I agree, that's fine.. It wasn't a comprehensive argument but just the gist of my pov:

I have no desire to feed the enemy. Sometimes, however, the mindless consumers bred by the progressive program have pushed all reasonable alternatives off the market, and only Chinese cr@p remains. Dag nabit!