Socialism As Socialism Does
One story I read about WW2 was that the Ruhr dams formed a superweapon on the western front. Blow up the dam at the right time of year and every bridge down stream gets washed out. If the French had invaded Germany right in the beginning while the German army was busy in Poland, they could have seized it and used it to delay the eventual German counteroffensive.
CHoff
Not true, the US built tank factories for him already much earlier. Where do you think his huge and well equipped army came from? The Russians had no barely and technical know how.But he certainly did NOT got any U.S. equipment before autumn 1941.
been hearing this shit way to often.I guess you will be hearing this for the first time.
The Austrians happily joined him. Compared to the Austro Fascists he seemed like an improvement at the time. Didnt quite turn out that well...First, Germans annected Austria.
Also, Hitler was an Austrian, you know...
Retaking territorries lost after WW1.Second, they occupied most of Czech Republic, with reluctant agreement of France and Great Britain, with Hitler claiming this to be the last teritorial request.
Stalin had tens of thousands of tanks lined up all the way up the wolga. They were still waiting for ammo and crews. Hitler did a preemptive strike.The next target was USSR. After the war with Finland, they seemed week, easy target. After Hitler attacked Soviets, West had virtually NO CHOICE than to support Stalin (enemy of my enemy is my friend).
Ahahaha. They were still counting the money they got from the reparation pays from Germany. Firing their steam ships with our wheat while people here were starving.If Germany had a normal government, they would be allied with France, England, U.S. and Stalin would never had a chance to win any war.
LOL, you have to get your history right man. The soviets were not very loved. The socialists just twisted history and hid the millions of murders very well after WW2.Later that made pro-Soviet governments established easily in these counties.
Oh we do learn this bullshit. Winner- history. Lies!I am afraid that education is Austria is somewhat wanting.
The Russians didn't have to destroy roads because they didn't have any. What would be roads on a German map were little more than tracks in Russia.
You might like an account of actual interviews with German Generals post war:
German Generals Talk
You might like an account of actual interviews with German Generals post war:
German Generals Talk
Last edited by MSimon on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
US built tank factories because everybody expected war.Skipjack wrote:Not true, the US built tank factories for him already much earlier. Where do you think his huge and well equipped army came from? The Russians had no barely and technical know how.But he certainly did NOT got any U.S. equipment before autumn 1941.
Besides, Russians had the know how. T-34 was problably the most efficient tank design of WWII. And they were able to produce it in very large quantities.
Mostly correct. Does not change the fact that Germans annected Austria.The Austrians happily joined him. Compared to the Austro Fascists he seemed like an improvement at the time. Didnt quite turn out that well...First, Germans annected Austria.
Also, Hitler was an Austrian, you know...
Completely incorrect. Check facts and tell me then which territories in CZ, annected in 1938 (and in 1939), were part of German Empire before WWI.Retaking territorries lost after WW1.Second, they occupied most of Czech Republic, with reluctant agreement of France and Great Britain, with Hitler claiming this to be the last teritorial request.
Stalin might have planned to exploit the situation, but he would not attack Germany, not at that time. There were much easier targets.Stalin had tens of thousands of tanks lined up all the way up the wolga.The next target was USSR. After the war with Finland, they seemed week, easy target. After Hitler attacked Soviets, West had virtually NO CHOICE than to support Stalin (enemy of my enemy is my friend).
Still, even if what you say is true, you are still left with "enemy of my enemy is my friend". What else could west do than to support Russians?
Of course, Hitler was a good guy.They were still waiting for ammo and crews. Hitler did a preemptive strike.
I agree that Germans have been pissed off and Versailles treaty was important factor for Nazis gaining the power.Ahahaha. They were still counting the money they got from the reparation pays from Germany. Firing their steam ships with our wheat while people here were starving.
Well, all I really need to do is to ask my parents.LOL, you have to get your history right man.Later that made pro-Soviet governments established easily in these counties.
In Germany. They were much more careful in liberated countries.The soviets were not very loved. The socialists just twisted history and hid the millions of murders very well after WW2.
Ah. All that your Nazi loving attitude seems to demonstrate is that socialists have much more affinity to Nazis than they would normaly admit. Thanks!Oh we do learn this bullshit. Winner- history. Lies!
Now please tell me some nice story about how Hitler loved Judes and wanted a better live for them.
Fascism was rather popular in the US in the '30s.
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_co ... gazin.html
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_co ... gazin.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo_Balbo
In honor of this feat, Mussolini donated a column from Ostia to the city of Chicago; it can still be seen along the Lakefront Trail, a little south of Soldier Field. Chicago renamed Seventh Street "Balbo Drive" and staged a parade in his honor.
During Balbo's stay in the United States, President Franklin D. Roosevelt invited him to lunch and presented him with the Distinguished Flying Cross.[5] The Sioux even honorarily adopted Balbo as "Chief Flying Eagle".[6] Balbo received a warm welcome in the United States, especially by the large Italian-American populations in Chicago and New York. At a cheering mass in Madison Square Garden he told them, "Be proud you are Italians. Mussolini has ended the era of humiliations."
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
What is funny is that this (and large distances) likely saved Russians. It is one thing to perform blitzkrieg in France, where you can move your tanks quickly, it is another thing to do it in Russia, where you get stuck in mud.MSimon wrote:The Russians didn't have to destroy roads because they didn't have any. What would be roads on a German map were little more than tracks in Russia.
The trap is simple: some really smart managers with really good tools can greatly reduce the "waste" of the system to the profit of all. That is the essence of communism, socialism, fascism and every kind of despotism known to man.Luzr wrote:I think both Fascism and Communisms are intelectual traps that will always be attractive for some.MSimon wrote:Fascism was rather popular in the US in the '30s.
It sounds so good to hear simple and understandable solutions to all problems of society...
And don't forget envy. i.e. "Share the wealth"
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
I could not agree more, this is the correct description.MSimon wrote:The trap is simple: some really smart managers with really good tools can greatly reduce the "waste" of the system to the profit of all. That is the essence of communism, socialism, fascism and every kind of despotism known to man.Luzr wrote:I think both Fascism and Communisms are intelectual traps that will always be attractive for some.MSimon wrote:Fascism was rather popular in the US in the '30s.
It sounds so good to hear simple and understandable solutions to all problems of society...
And don't forget envy. i.e. "Share the wealth"
BUT I would not go as long as to say that ALL welfare actions by goverment are bad by default. In fact, I think that e.g. public health insurance works quite well in many countries (mine country included). And all I have to spend is about 5% of my income. Not a bad deal IMO.
In fact, I think that voluntary health insurance in the end damages those who are responsible. After all, you cannot let die those not insured...
I wonder whether you can annect the willing.Mostly correct. Does not change the fact that Germans annected Austria.
Yeah, I wonder what they would need that many tanks for?And they were able to produce it in very large quantities.
The German army was comparably badly equipped. Germany had not powered up its weapons industry fully yet at the beginning of the war. E.g. they only had a hand full of submarines and their tanks were only light tanks.
Not part of Germany, but of Austria, with a large part of Austrian- German population. They had to suffer quite a lot after WW1. Read up on Böhmen and Mähren. Here is a good map. Ignore Germany and look at Austria. What do you see?Completely incorrect. Check facts and tell me then which territories in CZ, annected in 1938 (and in 1939), were part of German Empire before WWI.
http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 1016104252
Glad I could refresh your history knowledge a bit.
I cant say that is true or not true. He probably would have taken the Baltic countries first (as he did after WW2 anyway). Fact is that he was building a huge army. Fact is that the communists wanted world domination (you know the proletarian world revolution and such).Stalin might have planned to exploit the situation, but he would not attack Germany, not at that time. There were much easier targets.
He was not. Compared to Stalin he was the lesser evil though.Of course, Hitler was a good guy.
Indeed. They would have paid reparations until the 1980ies. Most of them would not have lived to see the end of it, only their grandchildren would have. That makes people angry and susceptible to crazy ideas. Hunger also inhibits brainfunction. Starving people dont think straight. You wave some food in front of them and they will do whatever you say.I agree that Germans have been pissed off and Versailles treaty was important factor for Nazis gaining the power.
I have and had plenty of people here to talk to about this. My grandparents among them.Well, all I really need to do is to ask my parents.
You are so funny!In Germany. They were much more careful in liberated countries.
Ad hominem.Ah. All that your Nazi loving attitude seems to demonstrate is that socialists have much more affinity to Nazis than they would normaly admit. Thanks!
I take this as a personal offense. To get your thinking started: My wife is half Jewish and I love her father. We are invited to a benefice gala by the Jewish cultural society next week. Plus, my granduncle spent 2 weeks in a concentration camp for standing up on the city courtyard (during his break from the eastern front), calling Hitler an idiot and rallying people up, asking everybody to stop fighting.
So be a little more careful with what you are accusing me off, alright?
Dont be ridiculous. Hitlers hatred for the Jewish people was insane and there clearly is no excuse (nor an explanation) for this.Now please tell me some nice story about how Hitler loved Judes and wanted a better live for them.
Stalin had already killed some 18 million people by 1933.Definitely. Stalinism was as brutal and pointless as Nazism. In any case, it was much more brutal BEFORE the war.
Read up on the Kulaks.
Churchill himself wrote in his memoirs that he admires Stalin for killing 18 million people and getting away with it.
During and after the war he continued cleansing in the name of bolschewism throughout the occupied countries. He probably (nobody knows for sure since the socialists had some 65 years to cover their tracks) killed more Jewish than Hitler did. It is assumed that Stalin killed some 32 million people total.
Stalin committed the only successful genocide in recorded history. The Don Kosaks. Ten Thousands of them had fled to Austria and Germany by the end of WW2.
I remember my grandfathers vivid description of their campfires left and right of the railroad, when he took the last train out of Vienna. The man singing sad songs in unsual high voices. Spooky.
After WW2 Stalin killed them all. Men, women, children. Had them lined up and rolled tanks over them. The Don Kosaks are an extinct people. Strangely enough nobody talks about it today.
Stalin did not start the killing though. After all, he was only the successor of Lenin. Do you think that the revolution in Russia went without victims? Not just there, before Hitler came and cleaned it up, the Raete republic in Germany killed thousands of people. Picked them off the streets and shot them after a backyard trial.
Sauerbruch, a famous surgeon had the guns already in his face, but was saved last minute by a russian patient who cried out “Sauerbrucha!”. It was madness. Sauerbruch "Das war mein Leben" is a book worth reading.
Communism continued killing millions of people after WW2. Suslow, e.g. was one of the biggest mass murderers ever (he also founded the green party
). Of course we dont even have to start talking about Pole Pot and co. It is assumed that the socialists killed a few hundred million people total.True. The conservatives were particularily fond of them.Fascism was rather popular in the US in the '30s.
Ford built trucks for Hitler long into the war. I think it was Texaco that gave Hitler the clue how to make artificial rubber. Charles Lindbergh was invited to Germany by Hitler to testfly the new Me 109, which Lindbergh enjoyed quite a lot.
Roosevelt on the other hand was actively rallying against Hitler Germany. He supported the Russians instead.
True. Hitler had no choice though. He was insane, but not that dumb. He would not have attacked Russia had he had another choice.What is funny is that this (and large distances) likely saved Russians. It is one thing to perform blitzkrieg in France, where you can move your tanks quickly, it is another thing to do it in Russia, where you get stuck in mud.
Ah, right. Now I understand your logic. And as they have annected Poland, they had immediate right to attack Russia, because large parts of Russia were parts of Poland in the past, so naturally they now belonged to Germany, right?Skipjack wrote:I wonder whether you can annect the willing.Mostly correct. Does not change the fact that Germans annected Austria.
Yeah, I wonder what they would need that many tanks for?And they were able to produce it in very large quantities.
The German army was comparably badly equipped. Germany had not powered up its weapons industry fully yet at the beginning of the war. E.g. they only had a hand full of submarines and their tanks were only light tanks.
Not part of Germany, but of Austria, with a large part of Austrian- German population.Completely incorrect. Check facts and tell me then which territories in CZ, annected in 1938 (and in 1939), were part of German Empire before WWI.
They only started to "suffer" when Hitler came to power and initiated something you would today call terrorist movement in german minority.They had to suffer quite a lot after WW1.
Otherwise, there have been German parties in Czechoslovakia and they had theirs representatives in parliament. Yes, Germans were minority, there were territories where they formed majority, but generally, I am relly not sure what suffering do you refer too. How many dead or tortured germans were there before 1938? Any facts?
I see you just believe Nazi propaganda.
Austrian empire was multinational country. Bohemian kingdom was part of it for about 400 years. As was Slovenia, Hungary, Serbia etc etc.... So what? Did that gave right to Hitler to occuppy all teritories of former Austria empire?Read up on Böhmen and Mähren. Here is a good map. Ignore Germany and look at Austria. What do you see?
Well, in fact, maybe Nazis thought so. This is actual map of Austria before WWI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Locat ... ary-01.png
Ah, my dear history expert. Please note that he actually have taken them before WWII.I cant say that is true or not true. He probably would have taken the Baltic countries first (as he did after WW2 anyway).
For your reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation ... tic_states
That is why Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians were soo eager to fight for German side, after Germans liberated them.
Everybody was building large army...Fact is that he was building a huge army. Fact is that the communists wanted world domination (you know the proletarian world revolution and such).
Well, I might agree with this. Still, Hitler's actions in the end lead to to half of europe in Soviet hands.He was not. Compared to Stalin he was the lesser evil though.Of course, Hitler was a good guy.
Well, Hitler stopped that. I guess somebody else could have done that too.Indeed. They would have paid reparations until the 1980ies.
Note that reparations were not the cause of WWII. But attacking Poland was simply too much....
OK, in Austria there were not very careful too. After all, Soviet hate propaganda worked against all germans.You are so funny!In Germany. They were much more careful in liberated countries.
Is this anyhow in disagreement with what I wrote?Stalin had already killed some 18 million people by 1933.Definitely. Stalinism was as brutal and pointless as Nazism. In any case, it was much more brutal BEFORE the war.
Read up on the Kulaks.
True again. To be fair, Stalin had 30 years to perform his crimes, about twice as much as Hitler....During and after the war he continued cleansing in the name of bolschewism throughout the occupied countries. He probably (nobody knows for sure since the socialists had some 65 years to cover their tracks) killed more Jewish than Hitler did. It is assumed that Stalin killed some 32 million people total.
Well, maybe not every day, but it is well known fact. At least it was mentioned in James Bond movieAfter WW2 Stalin killed them all. Men, women, children. Had them lined up and rolled tanks over them. The Don Kosaks are an extinct people. Strangely enough nobody talks about it today.
Yes.It is assumed that the socialists killed a few hundred million people total.
Again, what else chance he had? Should he had join Germany against England?Roosevelt on the other hand was actively rallying against Hitler Germany. He supported the Russians instead.