And you guys thought *I* was nuts.

[GIThruster]

Well that argument makes sense until you look at the facts. I doubt anyone here knew there were significant risks involved in inhaling helium. Most people don't. It's a commons practice and has been for decades. Blaming drugs for a common practice doesn't seem to me a noteworthy complaint.

I've inhaled helium at parties for chuckles many times, and I had no idea there was any risk involved at all. After all, it's inert.

I think the girl's death is just an unfortunate consequence of the fact helium can rarely build up in the bloodstream and cause a problem

How many kids at that party who were all inhaling helium, do you suppose thought there was a health risk involved? I don't think this is a case of poor judgement incurred from drug use. I think it's just a 1/1,000,000 example of how life is not so secure as it seems.

[ladajo]

Fair enough perspective. And given that we do not know the extent of what actually happened as we were not there, nor part of the jury, we can only guess.

One has to wonder if they were huffing the He in order to gain some sort of dizzy spell buzz for lack of O2. It seems kids these days will huff most anything to see if they can "mind alter".

In any event, yes I agree that helium huffing is innoculous enough in a sense of moderation. However, maybe moderation was not the word of the day in the good judgement vacuum of the party.

All the same, sad in any measure.

[Skipjack]

I have to side with GiThruster here. Lots of people do the helium trick and few are aware of the risks (which are small risks but it does happen) and there do not have to be drugs involved.

[ladajo]

Sure, and so have I. But, I am willing to say I have never done it while drunk, and I also did it in moderation, with the intent to make a squeaky voice. I have also know folks that have taken it a little far, and get a little dizzy (while drunk even).

Helium is not O2. Inhalation of ANY gas that lacks O2 has risk. But, again, existing in the past tense normally ignores the concept risk.

[GIThruster]

Yeah well, my claim to fame with breathing He was certainly at a college dance across town from the campus. At the end of the night, in an elevator, moving down from the main dance floor of the event, with my future wife's arm wrapped around mine; I sucked in the inert gas from a discarded balloon, for gags, just before the elevator doors opened. Standing before our rowdy crowd was six of the university's profs looking for a way downward. Just as they started to wonder how they'd fit into the full elevator, I started to sing the Oscar Meyer bologna song, in very high C, as if from the famed Chipmunks:

~My Bologna has a first mane, it's O-S-C-A-R !!!

~My Bologna has a second name it's M-E-Y-E-R. . .

All my six profs gaped as the doors closed for lack of use.

Had nothing at all to do with drug use, though I truly wish I could blame that on the fact I later married the astonishingly beautiful bitch on my arm.

[Diogenes]

I obviously agree that drug use is one of the world's greatest evils, perhaps the single worst, far worse than war, disease and famine since it destroys the lives of multitudes and could so easily be avoided.

However, this bit with the helium can't be blamed on drugs. The kid was at a party where she played with a helium tank, and most people have no idea that this can be dangerous. This is a tragic accident--no more. She could easily have died the same way at a 10 year-old's birthday party.

I would suggest that the drugs and alcohol made people more suggestible. To some young people, they are the lure of "FUN!"

I have long argued that the Injury (of which the Libertarians make no notice) is that of inducing someone else to try it. It is the lure of "fun" which is the motivating factor to induce these people into trying it.

call it what you will, but multitudes of people play with helium in this way with no thought that it can be dangerous. There is nothing in the piece that says the girl was using drugs, only that she'd had a couple drinks; and there's no reason to suppose she would not have done likewise without the drinks. Also, a complaint by an interested party whom might like to sue over the issue, is hardly evidence the girl didn't want to play with the helium. There's just no evidence here of drugs at work, IMHO.

Why settle for a shabby example of drugs supposedly ruining someone's life when each day hundreds of thousands of people demonstrate this fact of life? from Mexico to Somalia, Philadelphia to DC, the world is full of people who's lives have been devastated by drugs. No reason to blame drugs for an accident based upon what is normally harmless fun.

I understand your point. The linkage is not direct. Drugs are not the direct causation of the girls death, but they are a component of the probability path which led her there. "Fault" is a difficult thing to measure. The Consequences of a single small component can often have results out of all proportion. In fact, by some means of reckoning it can result in 100% of the fault.

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

The gun used in the movie "The Crow" would not have killed Brandon Lee had a shell fragment not been left in the barrel. Or, had it not been fired at him. Or had it not hit him where it did. It was a culmination of long odds which resulted in a tragedy. Which component was "the cause"?

Yes, the High pressure bottle caused her death, but it was not the only piece in the chain of probability. Drugs and Alcohol were another, possibly vital component.

[GIThruster]

Sorry, as much as I want to agree; I think you have a hopeless argument here. The girl died from pure accident--nothing more.

Why not focus on the real arguments to the point we agree on, that drugs kill people, and encourage people to waste their lives and kill themselves?

[Diogenes]

GIT,
I think the connection here is that the girl entered into an environment where poor judgement was king. And this loss of judgment was fueled by drugs and drink. This is the issue at the core of it all for me. A loss of free will by those who consume putting others at risk.

She may not have been on drugs, but she did drink, and those around her were drinking and doing drugs. She was not going to get any help at all, and more than likely those around her encouraged her actions.

So, does one assign blame and guilt to the person that encourages another to jump of a bridge because it will be fun, funny, and cool, only to see the jumper get killed? Does one assign more blame if the good idea fairy was further encouraged or not questioned due to loss of cognitive function by drinking and/or drug use?

I think yes.
I think that if you are going to reduce your cognitive function, you are required to do so in an environment with controls that prevent you from hurting others or by encouraging them to hurt themselves.

Was the Girl stupid? Yes. Did she get into something she shouldn't have? Yes. Did others there have the reasoning ability to either not encourage her, or stop her from doing harm to herself? More than likely, no.
it is entirely plausible that they did not give a crap at the moment, nor did they think about "whats next".

These are "people that live in the past tense".

She was one of them, and the ones that are sober today are thinking, as usual, in the past tense. At the party it was probably, "that was cool last time". After the party is was, "that was not cool". At the next party, more than half are going to be thinking, "that was cool, watch this. Hey Jimmy, check out the Helium tank!"

Straight to the core.

[Diogenes]

I have to side with GiThruster here. Lots of people do the helium trick and few are aware of the risks (which are small risks but it does happen) and there do not have to be drugs involved.

What if they were huffing helium for an oxygen deprivation high? (another variation on drug usage IMO)

What would you expect the kids to say after the fact? That they were TRYING to get high? Or just trying to be silly?

Reminds me of that choking game that was all the rage some years back.

What has been written in the story may or may not be the truth.

[Diogenes]

Sorry, as much as I want to agree; I think you have a hopeless argument here. The girl died from pure accident--nothing more.

Why not focus on the real arguments to the point we agree on, that drugs kill people, and encourage people to waste their lives and kill themselves?

I don't mind. It is the nature of my existence to discover people disagree with me about something.

I'll concede you have a valid point.

[Skipjack]

What if they were huffing helium for an oxygen deprivation high? (another variation on drug usage IMO)

Ohhh please! You dont need expensive helium for that! I mean, you would just have to put a plastic bag over your head or something...
Come on, buddy! Helium- voice is a classic party gag that is being done by kids and even grown ups everywhere!

[ladajo]

I do agree it was a stupid accident fueled by an environment filled with stupidity.

But I maintain that kids today are trying anything they can get their mitts on to "mind alter". Is that the case here? Odds are more so no. But, I am not ready to completely dismiss it.
I can see it in my mind, some idiot(s) excitedly explaining that hekium is totally safe, why if it wasn't, they wouldn't put it in kids party ballons...and then going on to say, you just need to take several really big hits, and then you get a buzz, try it, you'll see! Really!

And, yes, some idiots do put plastic bags over their heads for recreation.

For another stupid trick, kids have also had a fad where one stands against the wall, and another presses against his carotid arteries until he passes out. Great idea that! How cool! They claim the passing out feeling is really a mind altering mental rush...and no drugs involved.

Like I said, probably (and I would like to think) they were playing Looney Toons, but I am not fully willingly to dismiss the possibility they were not, or some were and some weren't. Like I said, it is a possibility, and I was not there. If a kid steps up and says, yeah, we were trying to get a 'high' by huffing a lot of the helium, it would not surprise me.

[Diogenes]

What if they were huffing helium for an oxygen deprivation high? (another variation on drug usage IMO)

Ohhh please! You dont need expensive helium for that! I mean, you would just have to put a plastic bag over your head or something...
Come on, buddy! Helium- voice is a classic party gag that is being done by kids and even grown ups everywhere!

And do you normally use a "mask" to do the helium voice? HMMMM?????

As for being expensive, perhaps it was already available, and perhaps they thought it would be amusing to combine one sort of fun with another. A twofer if you will.

I wonder what the investigators think?

[Diogenes]

I do agree it was a stupid accident fueled by an environment filled with stupidity.

But I maintain that kids today are trying anything they can get their mitts on to "mind alter". Is that the case here? Odds are more so no. But, I am not ready to completely dismiss it.
I can see it in my mind, some idiot(s) excitedly explaining that hekium is totally safe, why if it wasn't, they wouldn't put it in kids party ballons...and then going on to say, you just need to take several really big hits, and then you get a buzz, try it, you'll see! Really!

And, yes, some idiots do put plastic bags over their heads for recreation.

For another stupid trick, kids have also had a fad where one stands against the wall, and another presses against his carotid arteries until he passes out. Great idea that! How cool! They claim the passing out feeling is really a mind altering mental rush...and no drugs involved.

Like I said, probably (and I would like to think) they were playing Looney Toons, but I am not fully willingly to dismiss the possibility they were not, or some were and some weren't. Like I said, it is a possibility, and I was not there. If a kid steps up and says, yeah, we were trying to get a 'high' by huffing a lot of the helium, it would not surprise me.

Article says they were using a MASK.

"That helium tank got going around," said Ashley's stepfather, Justin Earp, who learned what happened from talking to Ashley's friends at the party. "It got to my daughter. My daughter didn't want to do it. It was peer pressure. They put a mask up to her face. They said it would be OK. 'It's not gonna hurt you. It'll just make you laugh and talk funny.'"

Odd way to do the squeeky voice gag. Completely consistent with getting high. Mask tends to indicate forethought of a specific purpose.

[Skipjack]

For another stupid trick, kids have also had a fad where one stands against the wall, and another presses against his carotid arteries until he passes out.

I have never, ever heard of anything like that other than some very, very fringe and rather rare perverted sex plays that some (like one in millions) are doing.