Taking Gold away from the people.

[Diogenes]

"Today, in 1933, FDR signed an Executive Order prohibiting the private ownership of gold. Worse, the order directed private citizens to turn their gold over to the federal government."





http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/0 ... d-edition/


I discovered a few months back that My Grandmother had stashed a $20.00 Gold piece. I am proud of her for defying Roosevelt's unlawful confiscation of private property.

[ladajo]

Don't you think that the sales line on your post is somewhat broad.

In this case the order was to recover federally issued "currency" based on the gold standard. Not really to take away personally owned gold.

To clarify, Roosevelt was not looking to get the government's mitts on your grandmother's gold jewelry.

I think this was actually one of the biggest early moves (intentional or not) to secure the ultimate failure of communist based socialism. Stepping the world away from the gold standard was an interesting move.

[Diogenes]

Don't you think that the sales line on your post is somewhat broad.

In this case the order was to recover federally issued "currency" based on the gold standard. Not really to take away personally owned gold.

To clarify, Roosevelt was not looking to get the government's mitts on your grandmother's gold jewelry.

I think this was actually one of the biggest early moves (intentional or not) to secure the ultimate failure of communist based socialism. Stepping the world away from the gold standard was an interesting move.

Pardon me for pointing this out, but the Notice says "Gold Coin." My understanding is that the government did indeed demand that American's turn in their Gold coins.

I personally have difficulty in understanding why a Specie currency is worse than a Fiat currency.

[ladajo]

Yes, gold coins were part of the issued currency.
It amounts to the same thing as the periodic government mandates that all bills or coins older than a certain date are taken out of circulation when they pass through the banking system.

[bcglorf]

Don't you think that the sales line on your post is somewhat broad.

In this case the order was to recover federally issued "currency" based on the gold standard. Not really to take away personally owned gold.

To clarify, Roosevelt was not looking to get the government's mitts on your grandmother's gold jewelry.

I think this was actually one of the biggest early moves (intentional or not) to secure the ultimate failure of communist based socialism. Stepping the world away from the gold standard was an interesting move.

Pardon me for pointing this out, but the Notice says "Gold Coin." My understanding is that the government did indeed demand that American's turn in their Gold coins.

I personally have difficulty in understanding why a Specie currency is worse than a Fiat currency.

I thought it boiled down to control. The value of a gold based currency is based on the supply of gold, which can't be controlled. The value of a fiat currency is based on the supply of the currency, which can be controlled.

[Diogenes]

Don't you think that the sales line on your post is somewhat broad.

In this case the order was to recover federally issued "currency" based on the gold standard. Not really to take away personally owned gold.

To clarify, Roosevelt was not looking to get the government's mitts on your grandmother's gold jewelry.

I think this was actually one of the biggest early moves (intentional or not) to secure the ultimate failure of communist based socialism. Stepping the world away from the gold standard was an interesting move.

Pardon me for pointing this out, but the Notice says "Gold Coin." My understanding is that the government did indeed demand that American's turn in their Gold coins.

I personally have difficulty in understanding why a Specie currency is worse than a Fiat currency.

I thought it boiled down to control. The value of a gold based currency is based on the supply of gold, which can't be controlled. The value of a fiat currency is based on the supply of the currency, which can be controlled.

My point exactly. By being controlled, it can be manipulated. That $20.00 gold piece my Grandmother kept hidden through the 1930s is now worth @$1,400.00 in current paper money.

The government did a lot of manipulation to the value of money that would not have been possible if it were tied to Gold or Silver.
I don't WANT people controlling the value of my money. I want it to remain as valuable as it was when I earned it.

[ladajo]

So with that thought, given the run on gold the past few years, is that a bonus?

What if it was a drop in gold, say if the soviets flooded the market with bullion?
Where are the controls?

[bcglorf]

Pardon me for pointing this out, but the Notice says "Gold Coin." My understanding is that the government did indeed demand that American's turn in their Gold coins.

I personally have difficulty in understanding why a Specie currency is worse than a Fiat currency.

I thought it boiled down to control. The value of a gold based currency is based on the supply of gold, which can't be controlled. The value of a fiat currency is based on the supply of the currency, which can be controlled.

My point exactly. By being controlled, it can be manipulated. That $20.00 gold piece my Grandmother kept hidden through the 1930s is now worth @$1,400.00 in current paper money.

The government did a lot of manipulation to the value of money that would not have been possible if it were tied to Gold or Silver.
I don't WANT people controlling the value of my money. I want it to remain as valuable as it was when I earned it.

Then people like yourself are free to purchase and horde gold. The point of fiat currency is that it is preferable to a currency solely controlled by chaos.

[Diogenes]

So with that thought, given the run on gold the past few years, is that a bonus?

Relativity my Dear Watson!

You presume that Gold is priced in Dollars, when in fact it is dollars that is priced in gold.

What if it was a drop in gold, say if the soviets flooded the market with bullion?
Where are the controls?

I've heard that argument My entire life, and I have yet to understand it.

So the Soviet's flood the market with bullion. We trade our goods and services for that bullion, and now we have the bullion. What's the problem?

Money is just a score keeping system. What I'm complaining about is officials trying to gimmick the score.

[Diogenes]

Then people like yourself are free to purchase and horde gold. The point of fiat currency is that it is preferable to a currency solely controlled by chaos.

Controlled by Chaos? Unlike our paper money?


I'm not sure I will EVER understand the arguments of the other side.

[bcglorf]

Then people like yourself are free to purchase and horde gold. The point of fiat currency is that it is preferable to a currency solely controlled by chaos.

Controlled by Chaos? Unlike our paper money?


I'm not sure I will EVER understand the arguments of the other side.

Yes, unlike our paper money. The control over a fiat currency's value isn't absolute, it's just that something exists. With gold it is worse.

If you want steer your economy away from inflation or deflation, with a fiat based currency you can move money in and out of circulation to accomplish this. It's only a minimal control, but it is SOMETHING. With gold you don't get that. What's worse, with gold a massive discovery of new gold suddenly devalues your currency just because. Gold's inflation and deflation becomes victim to the chaotic discovery and destruction/loss of a shiny metal.

You seem to prefer a currency whose supply is controlled by the chance discovery or loss of a shiny metal. I believe a currency whose supply is controlled by human decision has it's own benefits.

At least admit that you can see there are some benefits to human decision controlling currency supply over the random discovery of some metal. Maybe you don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, but don't continue carrying on as though you've never found anyone that can tell you why someone might prefer fiat over gold.

[AcesHigh]

my god... is Diogenes actually Glenn Beck in disguise? He cant stay one week without posting some conspiracy theory about democrats trying to turn the US into a communist country...

[Diogenes]

Then people like yourself are free to purchase and horde gold. The point of fiat currency is that it is preferable to a currency solely controlled by chaos.

Controlled by Chaos? Unlike our paper money?


I'm not sure I will EVER understand the arguments of the other side.

Yes, unlike our paper money. The control over a fiat currency's value isn't absolute, it's just that something exists. With gold it is worse.

If you want steer your economy away from inflation or deflation, with a fiat based currency you can move money in and out of circulation to accomplish this. It's only a minimal control, but it is SOMETHING. With gold you don't get that. What's worse, with gold a massive discovery of new gold suddenly devalues your currency just because. Gold's inflation and deflation becomes victim to the chaotic discovery and destruction/loss of a shiny metal.

You seem to prefer a currency whose supply is controlled by the chance discovery or loss of a shiny metal. I believe a currency whose supply is controlled by human decision has it's own benefits.

At least admit that you can see there are some benefits to human decision controlling currency supply over the random discovery of some metal. Maybe you don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, but don't continue carrying on as though you've never found anyone that can tell you why someone might prefer fiat over gold.

I understand completely why some people would want to have control over money. I just don't believe that they have the competence to do it properly if their intentions are benign, and secondly I don't believe their intentions are benign. "Managed" economies haven't worked out so well in the past. Why would we assume the same concept would work if someone tries to "Manage" the money?

Assuming that their intentions are entirely altruistic, what has been the track record of those people managing our money? A $20.00 gold coin is now worth $1,400.00

Obviously they didn't control inflation. We are becoming a Weimar Republic in slow motion. (Up till now.) The possibility exists that we will soon turn into Zimbabwe.


I dunno. Even if there IS an upside as you are claiming, the downside looks so bad that the upside cannot possible justify taking the chance with the downside.

[Diogenes]

my god... is Diogenes actually Glenn Beck in disguise? He cant stay one week without posting some conspiracy theory about democrats trying to turn the US into a communist country...

Are you from Brazil?

Oh, and I'm not suggesting a conspiracy. I'm just suggesting that idiots can really screw things up when they get into power.

[bcglorf]

Assuming that their intentions are entirely altruistic, what has been the track record of those people managing our money? A $20.00 gold coin is now worth $1,400.00

You don't seem to be understanding the point then.

Yes, in 1930 an ounce of gold was worth about $20. Today, an ounce of gold is worth $1,400.
Meanwhile, $20 from 1930 is equivalent to about $450 today based on CPI.

Do you think that means that if we were on the gold standard all these years, that we'd each be that much wealthier and have that much more buying power?

It obviously doesn't work that way, but it seems to be what you are suggesting. Is that really how you think things work?