FBI: Crimes rates fall again

[williatw]

http://www.nraila.org/News/Read/InTheNews.aspx?ID=15158

Interesting...anyone care to speculate about why the Obama years seem to be so good for crime rates going down? If I had to guess I would say more law abiding citizens getting guns and CCW's.

[rjaypeters]

I believe the crime statistics are being manipulated to show lower crime rates. I'm too spent from writing other posts to go look...maybe later.

[MSimon]

I believe the crime statistics are being manipulated to show lower crime rates. I'm too spent from writing other posts to go look...maybe later.

On line pron and violent video games.

[williatw]

How about the huge increase in firearms ammunition sales that happened after Obama won the election? That and the huge increase in concealed carry permits? If you follow the link from the NRA website to the FBI site with the data, the crime rate dropped most in the South, followed by the Midwest and then the West. The Northeast crime rate only dropped modestly, in fact the homicide rate actually went up in the Northeast. The Northeast contained some of the states with the strictest gun control laws like New York.

[choff]

There's a falling murder rate in Canada but it's misleading, paramedics are getting better at saving violent crime victims. Overall crime is down but the percentage of violent crime is up.

[rjaypeters]

On line pron and violent video games.

These researchers would probably disagree about the second one.

Violent Video Games Reduce Brain Response to Violence and Increase Aggressive Behavior, Study Suggests

Quote: "ScienceDaily (May 25, 2011) — Scientists have known for years that playing violent video games causes players to become more aggressive. The findings of a new University of Missouri (MU) study provide one explanation for why this occurs: the brains of violent video game players become less responsive to violence, and this diminished brain response predicts an increase in aggression."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 151059.htm

OTOH, people who watch the pron and play the games, a lot, will have less time to go outside and commit crimes.

[Tom Ligon]

More likely it is just the economy. Crime goes up when people are unemployed. The economy is improving (very, very slowly).

I'm a gun owner, but I don't think gun ownership has much influence on crime statistics one way or another, except in neighborhoods so bad I'd move.

Looking back in history, there have been periods when violence appears to have been rife. The Wild West, for example, or the Roaring 20's. Did people actually become more civilized, or was the actual level of violence in those periods highly exaggerated? Hard to say ... but I think it is likely the general public bought into the idea of law and order, and became less tolerant of violence.

Gang violence comes in waves, or at least appears to. Today's gangs are not the same ones as yesterday. Hells Angels are still around, but tends to be old lawyers riding Harleys now. Even MS13 seems to be on the wane. We have a different city as the murder capital of the country every year ... the local gangs and drug industry grow and die.

[Skipjack]

Quote: "ScienceDaily (May 25, 2011) — Scientists have known for years that playing violent video games causes players to become more aggressive.

I think that this study is very flawed. Their method is dubious, the sample size is small.
I know many gamers, most of them are geeks that have never ever hurt as much as a fly. I myself play games often, also violent ones. I have never hurt anybody in my entire life. I think that playing these games is actually acting more as a valve to let of steam, than anything else.
AFAIK, most violent crimes in the US are commited by gangsters that raid the streets all day long and not gamers.

[rjaypeters]

I think that this study is very flawed. Their method is dubious, the sample size is small.
I know many gamers, most of them are geeks that have never ever hurt as much as a fly. I myself play games often, also violent ones. I have never hurt anybody in my entire life. I think that playing these games is actually acting more as a valve to let of steam, than anything else.
AFAIK, most violent crimes in the US are commited by gangsters that raid the streets all day long and not gamers.

I think you have a point. Not trying to start a fight, but show us your data.

[williatw]

More likely it is just the economy. Crime goes up when people are unemployed. The economy is improving (very, very slowly).

I'm a gun owner, but I don't think gun ownership has much influence on crime statistics one way or another, except in neighborhoods so bad I'd move.

Looking back in history, there have been periods when violence appears to have been rife. The Wild West, for example, or the Roaring 20's. Did people actually become more civilized, or was the actual level of violence in those periods highly exaggerated? Hard to say ... but I think it is likely the general public bought into the idea of law and order, and became less tolerant of violence.

Gang violence comes in waves, or at least appears to. Today's gangs are not the same ones as yesterday. Hells Angels are still around, but tends to be old lawyers riding Harleys now. Even MS13 seems to be on the wane. We have a different city as the murder capital of the country every year ... the local gangs and drug industry grow and die.

Yes by why some areas of the country experiencing sharp drops in the last few years for homicide/violent crime like the South & Midwest while other areas like the Northeast not so much? I mean homicides drop big time in the South but go up in the Northeast? I would agree that the general downward trend in crime that started in the late 80's early 90's had multiple causes, I was asking about the sharp drop in the last few years. I would have to guess that the perception in the minds of would be criminals that they run the risk of an immediate response i.e. being shot by a would be victim with no legal repercussions is a deterrent. There has been a large proliferation of not only CCW licences but "Castle Doctrine" type laws in many states including my own. I believe in Florida and Texas this has been expanded to "stand your ground laws" no duty to retreat anywhere you have a legal right to be before deadly force can be used in self-defense.

[Skipjack]

I think you have a point. Not trying to start a fight, but show us your data.

I wished I had solid statistics, but there is not really much. Heck even that so called study there is IMHO absolutely irrelevant.
One point would be, that we have just as many percent gamers in our population and yet a much lower crime rate than the US.
Another point would be the numbers of gamers and so called violent games has been increasing (consoles now have ego shooters too, which allone increased the numbers of players a lot), yet crime rates are stable, or even decreasing. If the theory was correct, the number of violent crimes would have to be increasing a lot when the Xbox360 and the PS3 came out. I dont know anymore how many million times "Gears of War" sold, but I remember that it was a lot. Call of Duty and co are also available for consoles now and sell in the millions. In the early 2000s ego shooters were PC- only and had a much smaller userbase.
Another argument would be that since there are just as many gamers in well situated house holds as there are in low income families, the rate of violent crimes in high income families should be increasing as well.
From all I have read or heard, none of that is happening.

[Betruger]

I think that this study is very flawed. Their method is dubious, the sample size is small.
I know many gamers, most of them are geeks that have never ever hurt as much as a fly. I myself play games often, also violent ones. I have never hurt anybody in my entire life. I think that playing these games is actually acting more as a valve to let of steam, than anything else.
AFAIK, most violent crimes in the US are commited by gangsters that raid the streets all day long and not gamers.

I think you have a point. Not trying to start a fight, but show us your data.

What he describes is the same as the consensus from the last few (there haven't been that many that I've seen reported) studies. IIRC the last few I read were either reported on at Arstechnica or NBF. Sorry I truly can't recall any specifics to dig up those articles.

My 2c worth of insight: video games are a fairly new development and so there's probably not yet a full understanding of everything involved. E.G. growing up with violent/"PG" video games, and/or gaming diet (e.g. is the root cause (if any) the game or the gamer's obsession), etc.

And these studies also need to assess the full picture before making conclusions beyond the exact scope of their study. E.G. what are the positive consequences of gaming? Some competitive games push very impressive hand eye coordination, and mental problem solving and situational awareness (etc) value.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmYhX8fjmo8

In my experience, the kids that go full blown nuts from video games already had the seeds in place.

[chrismb]

I read the title as 'the number of crimes by the FBI have fallen'.

[rjaypeters]

That would be good.

[seedload]

Quote: "ScienceDaily (May 25, 2011) — Scientists have known for years that playing violent video games causes players to become more aggressive.

I think that this study is very flawed. Their method is dubious, the sample size is small.
I know many gamers, most of them are geeks that have never ever hurt as much as a fly. I myself play games often, also violent ones. I have never hurt anybody in my entire life. I think that playing these games is actually acting more as a valve to let of steam, than anything else.
AFAIK, most violent crimes in the US are commited by gangsters that raid the streets all day long and not gamers.

As an aside, violent crime and video games could have changed my life in a terrible way. I was a big fan of the game "Quake" from id software which was a violent game unto itself. As a programmer, I wrote a modification for the game that was exceptionally violent (a notch up) but a hell of a lot of fun. I published it on the internet for free. My modification was hugely popular.

Over a few years, I kept the mod up to date with new releases of Quake, even recruiting a team of artists and designers to work on the free mod. It was just a hobby, for fun, with a lot of fans. Seemed innocent enough.

Then Columbine happened. The shooters were huge video game fans (and geeks). Especially of the game Doom by id software - the precursor of Quake. They had web pages dedicated to it and the news jumped all over this!

The thought struck me that I had associated myself - as a hobby for fun - with something that could potentially ruin my life in many ways. Imagine if instead of being fans of Doom, they had been fans of my modification, "Headhunters" for Quake, which was not that far fetched due to its violence and because Quake was the biggest FPS of the day.

Would I have woke up one day to reporters on my doorstep and my name all over the news just because I wrote something for fun and for free that got popular with the wrong people? I would probably lose my job. I would lose standing in my community. I would be a freaking featured news story as a contributer to mass murder! Scary thoughts.

I stopped the next day with this game mod. I still dabble in games now, but they are cell phone based, relatively non-violent games. Not because I would actually think I was responsible if something bad happened (although the thought would enter my head), but because the risk/reward was not worth it to me personally.

I still like violent video games, BTW. I just don't want my name on 'em.

regards