Dr. David Allen - Railroaded For His Property - My Usual

[MSimon]

http://classicalvalues.com/2013/04/rail ... -property/

[paperburn1]

http://classicalvalues.com/2013/04/rail ... -property/

Simon
I have set in my preferences not to receive email from users. Please do not use your administrator privileges to circumvent my request. I am willing to debate you on an open form but do not wish to do so in a private one. Thank you

[MSimon]

http://classicalvalues.com/2013/04/rail ... -property/

Simon
I have set in my preferences not to receive email from users. Please do not use your administrator privileges to circumvent my request. I am willing to debate you on an open form but do not wish to do so in a private one. Thank you

It was just a heads up. Didn't want you to miss an opportunity for public debate. BTW I had no idea about your preferences. They don't show up on my screen. I won't be bothering you again.

And note: Dr. Allen is in the process of getting up a suit against the people who falsely arrested him. There is NO EVIDENCE for any of the crimes he was accused of. He is also going after Mississippi for using cold in prisons to torture inmates generally.

I think the locals picked the wrong guy. With about 75% of the adult US population favoring med pot he is likely to be well received among most citizens. Also note that even Diogenes is uncomfortable with our forfeiture laws.

BTW re: crime in general. My take is that the vast majority of criminals are abused children. If we really cared about reducing the criminal population in America we would be doing more about child abuse. My way would be to do informational campaigns. More laws won't help.

We are in the midst of a sea change. So things are unsettled. I expect things to be more settled by 2016 and to be set for about 20 years by 2020.

[paperburn1]

No harm no foul.

[mdeminico]

http://classicalvalues.com/2013/04/rail ... -property/

Simon
I have set in my preferences not to receive email from users. Please do not use your administrator privileges to circumvent my request. I am willing to debate you on an open form but do not wish to do so in a private one. Thank you

Why did you post your response to him (which is a private matter) here in the public forum? Were you just trying to get people mad at him for "bothering" you?

[MSimon]

http://classicalvalues.com/2013/04/rail ... -property/

Simon
I have set in my preferences not to receive email from users. Please do not use your administrator privileges to circumvent my request. I am willing to debate you on an open form but do not wish to do so in a private one. Thank you

Why did you post your response to him (which is a private matter) here in the public forum? Were you just trying to get people mad at him for "bothering" you?

Well I wondered the same.

[Diogenes]

Forfeiture laws are violations of the fourth and fifth amendments.


Fourth
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Fifth
"No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

[hanelyp]

The drug war is a red herring. The real scandal is the readiness with which government agents would violate such clear Constitutional principles. End the drug war and those who would enslave us will find another excuse.

But the Constitution is only as strong as those who stand to defend it.

[MSimon]

The drug war is a red herring. The real scandal is the readiness with which government agents would violate such clear Constitutional principles. End the drug war and those who would enslave us will find another excuse.

But the Constitution is only as strong as those who stand to defend it.

Well of course. And those who would not oppose the drug war have already surrendered. Which is exactly what they want.

They have taken a whole swath of the Patriot Right out of action without firing a shot. Clever boys.

When they make guns contraband how will Patriots stand on principle and the Constitution having already given them up to get at dopers. "We smelled gunpowder residue" will be all they need. Or even less "We smelled pot and found guns. I guess we got lucky. We didn't find any pot though. But we did find the guns."

Anything found incident to an arrest - legal search or no - will be used against you.

http://law.justia.com/constitution/us/a ... rrest.html

The case cited was a heroin case. Too funny.

[palladin9479]

It'll get worse before it gets better.

Right now Police agencies are under some sort of Judge Dredd assumption that they "are the law". They can and often do illegal things in the pursuit of enforcing their agenda on others. What started out as giving police "the right tools" to "get the bad guys" has turned into a situation where they have "the right tools" to do whatever they want. How can you call evidence against them when they control the evidence to begin with? They can go around shooting people with no repercussions. It's to the point where you need hidden recorders everywhere around your home and car just to ensure you get treated fairly. And even then they can just throw all pretense out the window and do whatever they want while getting court sanctioned immunity. Ultimately the only defense against them are extremely well paid lawyers.

[MSimon]

It all goes back to the most fundamental rule of liberty. You MUST protect the liberties of the most reviled among you lest they use what is done to THOSE as a precedent against YOU.

No one stood for the Fourth for the dopers. No one stood for the Constitution for the dopers. And now they will be coming for you. And there will be nothing to protect you. Precedent having been set.

And what have I been saying for years here. That government was a bigger enemy than dope. And you know what kind of reception I got.....

In any case welcome. A little late in the fight. But perhaps there is a chance (slim) to prevail. Against the odds.

From "A Man For All Seasons"

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

[paperburn1]

[
Why did you post your response to him (which is a private matter) here in the public forum? Were you just trying to get people mad at him for "bothering" you?

Well I wondered the same.

Public forum, public post, that way there is no" he said she said" and it is all out in the open and transparent. I wish all my communications to be on the board in the open. Responding to him privately would make no sense as those are not the terms I wish to communicate by. No need to read anything more into it than that. Simon said he was not aware that his admin privileges would allow him to PM me and I believe him, He has no reason to lie and as I posted “no harm no foul”. Do we understand now?

[paperburn1]

It'll get worse before it gets better.

Right now Police agencies are under some sort of Judge Dredd assumption that they "are the law". They can and often do illegal things in the pursuit of enforcing their agenda on others. What started out as giving police "the right tools" to "get the bad guys" has turned into a situation where they have "the right tools" to do whatever they want. How can you call evidence against them when they control the evidence to begin with? They can go around shooting people with no repercussions. It's to the point where you need hidden recorders everywhere around your home and car just to ensure you get treated fairly. And even then they can just throw all pretense out the window and do whatever they want while getting court sanctioned immunity. Ultimately the only defense against them are extremely well paid lawyers.

I think google eye is a step in the right direction, I seem to remember a scifi story that all the old people wore video to protect themself and prevent abuse on both sided of the fence.

[MSimon]

[
Why did you post your response to him (which is a private matter) here in the public forum? Were you just trying to get people mad at him for "bothering" you?

Well I wondered the same.

Public forum, public post, that way there is no" he said she said" and it is all out in the open and transparent. I wish all my communications to be on the board in the open. Responding to him privately would make no sense as those are not the terms I wish to communicate by. No need to read anything more into it than that. Simon said he was not aware that his admin privileges would allow him to PM me and I believe him, He has no reason to lie and as I posted “no harm no foul”. Do we understand now?

That seems valid. Better than running to Joe who dislikes being bothered.

[MSimon]

It'll get worse before it gets better.

Right now Police agencies are under some sort of Judge Dredd assumption that they "are the law". They can and often do illegal things in the pursuit of enforcing their agenda on others. What started out as giving police "the right tools" to "get the bad guys" has turned into a situation where they have "the right tools" to do whatever they want. How can you call evidence against them when they control the evidence to begin with? They can go around shooting people with no repercussions. It's to the point where you need hidden recorders everywhere around your home and car just to ensure you get treated fairly. And even then they can just throw all pretense out the window and do whatever they want while getting court sanctioned immunity. Ultimately the only defense against them are extremely well paid lawyers.

I think google eye is a step in the right direction, I seem to remember a scifi story that all the old people wore video to protect themself and prevent abuse on both sided of the fence.

Well maybe not: http://slashdot.org/topic/cloud/google- ... e-culture/

and: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/g ... nding.html

and http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/25/tech/inno ... ndrew-keen