Polywell revisited

[KitemanSA]

The grid is grounded.

That it why it is failing!
Think back to the beginning of the whole endeavor, the Farnsworth Fusor. It used a high potential on a wire grid to form a potential well that contained an ion plasma. The problem came when the ions grounded against the grid.
The next step, I don’t remember the name, used a high potential on a wire grid to contain a cloud of electrons that formed a gridless potential well to contain an ion plasma. The problem came when the electrons grounded against the grid.
Then came the Polywell which was conceived to protect the high potential grid from the elections with magnetic fields (much easier that protecting the grid from ions). The added bonus was suppoed to be that the flux compression allowed greater electron density. But it was not intended to replace the high potential on the grid as the PRIMARY containment. I’m not sure when the foolishness started to use external ion guns and a grounded grid. Like I said, foolishness.
IFAICT, Bussard made the WB series as DATA mines, not functional designs. Perhaps EMC2 should try building a more functional design and stop listening the that Aussie who said the DATA MINEdesign would never work so, by implication POLYWELL won’t either.

[KitemanSA]

The grid is grounded.

That it why it is failing!
Think back to the beginning of the whole endeavor, the Farnsworth Fusor. It used a high potential on a wire grid to form a potential well that contained an ion plasma. The problem came when the ions grounded against the grid.
The next step, I don’t remember the name, used a high potential on a wire grid to contain a cloud of electrons that formed a gridless potential well to contain an ion plasma. The problem came when the electrons grounded against the grid.
Then came the Polywell which was conceived to protect the high potential grid from the elections with magnetic fields (much easier that protecting the grid from ions). The added bonus was suppoed to be that the flux compression allowed greater electron density. But it was not intended to replace the high potential on the grid as the PRIMARY containment. I’m not sure when the foolishness started to use external ion guns and a grounded grid. Like I said, foolishness.
IFAICT, Bussard made the WB series as DATA mines, not functional designs. Perhaps EMC2 should try building a more functional design and stop listening the that Aussie who said the DATA MINEdesign would never work so, by implication POLYWELL won’t either.

[KitemanSA]

Sorry, I was having trouble posting and now it won’t let me delete the older versions.

[sd_matt]

Is the magrid the container for the six electromagnets? Or is the magrid the magnets AND containers?

[KitemanSA]

Is the magrid the container for the six electromagnets? Or is the magrid the magnets AND containers?

The magrid is the container with the magnets inside. If there is a way to charge the cans but not the coils, why?

[sd_matt]

Is the magrid the container for the six electromagnets? Or is the magrid the magnets AND containers?

The magrid is the container with the magnets inside. If there is a way to charge the cans but not the coils, why?

That was my next question as a layman. Is there a benefit to charging the container while the electromagnets hace current going through them. Bussard talked about electrons running into the supports I think.

And

If the coils are grounded then all that energy is lost while firing a shot? If so is there a practical way to recover it?

[KitemanSA]

Is the magrid the container for the six electromagnets? Or is the magrid the magnets AND containers?

The magrid is the container with the magnets inside. If there is a way to charge the cans but not the coils, why?

That was my next question as a layman. Is there a benefit to charging the container while the electromagnets hace current going through them. Bussard talked about electrons running into the supports I think.

AFAIK, there is nothing to prevent charging both. Current runs from one voltage to another. Nothing says the voltages cannot both be very positive or very negative.

If the coils are grounded then all that energy is lost while firing a shot? If so is there a practical way to recover it?

I’m not sure of your thinking here. “Shot”?
Polywell is supposed to be a continuously running machine. Current initiated in superconductive coils. System voltages set so that the magrid is highly positive relative to the rest of the system. Electrons and fuel continuously fed in to maintain well depth and fuel density. Overly energetic fusion products escaping THRU the field and their energy being captured appropriate to the product & energy. Hmmm?

[sd_matt]

Current in the coils would come from a generator? So grounding meaning the coils are part of a circuit that includes a generator?

I understand the electromagnets and their field are supposed to keep electrons from running into the Magrid (magnets and shell).?

[sd_matt]

You talk about a grounded grid being a problem. I have no idea either way. Regarding a functional power plant how would you do it?

I don't mean to jump all over the place. I am trying to understand how this works. I think I get the basics: Electronagnetics contain, in laymanspeak, a cloud of static electricity, the potential well. The potential well contains the fuel ions. The electromagnets are supposed to prevent the escape of electrons AND prevent them from grounding (ie the metal shell that contains the magnets)? And then the wiffleball effect where the equal electron (and fuel ion?) pressure equals the inward pressure of the magnets and closes off/minimizes escape routs for electrons that make the potential well?

[KitemanSA]

Current in the coils would come from a generator? So grounding meaning the coils are part of a circuit that includes a generator?

I understand the electromagnets and their field are supposed to keep electrons from running into the Magrid (magnets and shell).?

In the functioning power Polywell, the electro-magnets are superconductive. They are charged up and STAY that way continuously.
Yes, they keep the electrons from hitting the grid, but NOT from escaping THRU the cusps. The charge on the MaGrid is to pull the electrons back thru the cusps, thus preventing total loss of the escaped electrons.

[KitemanSA]

You talk about a grounded grid being a problem. I have no idea either way. Regarding a functional power plant how would you do it?

I don't mean to jump all over the place. I am trying to understand how this works. I think I get the basics: Electronagnetics contain, in laymanspeak, a cloud of static electricity, the potential well. The potential well contains the fuel ions. The electromagnets are supposed to prevent the escape of electrons AND prevent them from grounding (ie the metal shell that contains the magnets)? And then the wiffleball effect where the equal electron (and fuel ion?) pressure equals the inward pressure of the magnets and closes off/minimizes escape routs for electrons that make the potential well?

All true except the electron loss thru the cusps will be too great unless they are retrieved by the high relative positive potential on the MaGrid.

In other discussions I mention how the minimize loss thru “line cusps” but even so, the point and funnies still need recirc, IMHO.

[ladajo]

Y'all really should read the latest published work. It speaks to much of which you debate.
The shot based machines taught the team much, up to and including WB-X.
The simulation work has validated and extended the physical data learning even further.
The next logical step in the research is to complete some of the outstanding Sim work, and get back to physical testing to validate and provide data for the next step: Sim/Design/Build a breakeven proof of concept.
The prior criticisms have been addressed, mostly in them no longer being applicable based on changed understanding and approach.

[sd_matt]

Current in the coils would come from a generator? So grounding meaning the coils are part of a circuit that includes a generator?

I understand the electromagnets and their field are supposed to keep electrons from running into the Magrid (magnets and shell).?

In the functioning power Polywell, the electro-magnets are superconductive. They are charged up and STAY that way continuously.
Yes, they keep the electrons from hitting the grid, but NOT from escaping THRU the cusps. The charge on the MaGrid is to pull the electrons back thru the cusps, thus preventing total loss of the escaped electrons.

So the recirculation is only partially effective. Why is the magrid being grounded a bad thing?

[sd_matt]

Also going back to the analogy of inflating the balloon fast enough to close off the electron escape routes (cusps) quickly:

What is a better alternative to electron guns for injecting electrons?

Was inflating the balloon fast enough to Beta = 1 always the elephant in the room for Polywell? And, to review, newer and more capable ion injection might save polywell?

[KitemanSA]

So the recirculation is only partially effective. Why is the magrid being grounded a bad thing?

More electron loss. Lose too many and you can’t maintain the well.