Cogs In Machine

[Jccarlton]

I think that somebody in China watched that old Charlie Chaplin movie and thought that was how factories really worked:
http://blog.machinedesign.com/Machine_D ... g-machine/
This is wrong on so many levels I'm not sure where to start.

[IntLibber]

I think that somebody in China watched that old Charlie Chaplin movie and thought that was how factories really worked:
http://blog.machinedesign.com/Machine_D ... g-machine/
This is wrong on so many levels I'm not sure where to start.

A good indicator: when people are cheaper than robots, your labor standards are too lax.

[kunkmiester]

Good grief!

[Giorgio]

Quite old video, I remember seeing it from at least 4-5 years, so it's probably older than that.

If you really want to get scared try researching some video about Indian or Chineese workers in the Pigments Industry. It's much much scarier....

[kunkmiester]

I posted this elsewhere--someone mentioned that this particular job is hard to automate, so you pretty much have to do it that way. Ideally there would be safety switches so no one can actually put their hand in the machine when it closes.

[Betruger]

I can't see why it's hard to automate. Anyone know what that specific stamping machine is called?

[Giorgio]

It's just a standard hydraulic press, they do not have specific names.

These type of companies normally work on a specific item only for few days and than they simply change the mould to manufacture different parts for a different customer.
This is why is not economical for them to automate it.

Here you can see the video in better quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_NXFHMm ... re=related

[Jccarlton]

It's just a standard hydraulic press, they do not have specific names.

These type of companies normally work on a specific item only for few days and than they simply change the mould to manufacture different parts for a different customer.
This is why is not economical for them to automate it.

Here you can see the video in better quality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_NXFHMm ... re=related

That's all true. That press though, is much too large for that job. You A press that size is usually used to press things like appliance frames and car doors.
Here's a press being operated in Williamsburg VA for the same kind of product:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA8y__BMl-o
That Chinese company is actually costing itself money running that press the way they are doing. but they probably got that press used and cheap, so the poor use of labor and capitol is offset by the lower first cost.

[Betruger]

Thanks Gorgio. Just strange that such a press wouldn't have some mechanism to move a variety of parts off the bottom.

You A press that size is usually used to press things like appliance frames and car doors.
That Chinese company is actually costing itself money running that press the way they are doing. but they probably got that press used and cheap, so the poor use of labor and capitol is offset by the lower first cost.

That makes sense of it.

[Giorgio]

The machine dimensions are not the important factor in hydraulic presses, it is the pressing force (expressed in Tons) that determines the type of machine that will be used.
The machine in your link is a primary forming, meaning that the raw metal is formed to the primary shape of the final product. These type of machines require force in the range of 100+ Tons for single piece (mainly depends on type of metal and thickness), so you hardly find them making more than one piece per time.

This is a secondary forming press making 5 refining steps. From the look of the piece it should need from 10 to 15 Tons of force for each step, so is probably a 50 to 100 Tons machine.
If you look carefully the video you will notice as the mould in the press is composed by a series of steps. The guy in the top of the video load a single raw cup from a conveyor into the first mold, and than the cup is than passed from mould to mould until it reaches the last guy.

From a technical point of view it makes sense, as all the steps are consequential and production time is optimized.
To automate something like this, while feasible would have required several hundred of thousands dollar worth or robotic actuators.

[Betruger]

Yes it's definitely cheaper to put a man in that role if that's how it works. I'm not sure I see how it's not a temporary situation though, for it to not be automated. That's why I was asking about specific machine model.. To try and see what about the specific design makes integrated mould to mould shuttling so difficult.

[Giorgio]

It's not difficult but expensive.
Consider that unless you have a machine dedicated to make the same piece (or a very similar one) over and over for years, authomatization is just not convenient yet in countries like China.

A robotic hand can go from 100K to several hundred thousand US$ once installed with authomation software and ancillary equipment.
Only for that step of the proces line you would need 4 to 6 hands, while a good salary for a Chineese worker is still in the 200 US$ range.

[Betruger]

I see that and I agree. It just sounds like a great business opportunity begging to be filled. The movement just doesn't look that complex and there has to be only so many different parts and corresponding robotic hand designs to grasp them. I might be wrong but that's what it seems like to me.

Make the robot arms something like an inkjet printer shuttle, moving along clothesline x beam, with y movement by the x beam's supports, and you can move the whole thing outside the press footprint each press.. It seems cheap enough used on reprap. And the Chinese have shown they know how to make knock-offs of proven quality designs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU56NOMgrow

[doug l]

This is very interesting.
I'm aware of similar machines, such as injection molding machines, which haveing become obsolete in the context of commercial high volume production manufacturing, had been acquired by groups in China, who then install them into domiciles where people would operate them for smaller/less demanding runs that would not be economical or practical for ordinary manufacturers, and so it became possible to see a family's apartment in Kowloon City where everyone was engaged in their domestic activities such as watching TV or eating dinner while periodically emptying a bin, or filling a hopper, or seperating parts from their injection sprues, while their family's injection molding machine was chugging along producing parts for toys, or some special knob for a toaster, and of course, producing revenue. Sorta like the family farm.

[Aero]

This is very interesting.
I'm aware of similar machines, such as injection molding machines, which haveing become obsolete in the context of commercial high volume production manufacturing, had been acquired by groups in China, who then install them into domiciles where people would operate them for smaller/less demanding runs that would not be economical or practical for ordinary manufacturers, and so it became possible to see a family's apartment in Kowloon City where everyone was engaged in their domestic activities such as watching TV or eating dinner while periodically emptying a bin, or filling a hopper, or seperating parts from their injection sprues, while their family's injection molding machine was chugging along producing parts for toys, or some special knob for a toaster, and of course, producing revenue. Sorta like the family farm.

That is almost exactly my thought when I read someone's claim that he/she was making $400-$500 a week with a reprap machine. I posted here.
viewtopic.php?t=2573