Ahh secularism...

AcesHigh · Post by **AcesHigh** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:37 am

Skipjack wrote:
Satanists plan to injure others.
What type of satanist? Theistic, or atheistic satanists? They are different in their believes, from what I understand. Either way it is just as stupid as the rest.

how there can be "atheistic" satanists? If they believe in Satan, they are theistic. They may not believe in the christian god, but that doesnt make them atheistic. Any kind of supernatural all powerful being, evil or goody or neutral, is a "god" in the polytheistic sense, and therefore, unless you believe satan is "natural" (like maybe an alien superintelligence or an ancient alien A.I... or the Shrike (from Hyperion books), than you are a theist if you believe in Satan.

AcesHigh · Post by **AcesHigh** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:46 am

MSimon wrote:GIT,

Pay attention. It is quite common for those with unresolved child abuse issues to inflict the abuse on their children. And/or on others. My dad did it to me. It took me until his 60s to straighten him out. I used his love for me to force the issue.

my wife is a psychologist and she works with abused (sexually and also violently abused) children. You are right. Its interesting how many children who hate their parents for what they did to them, grow up and do the same thing to their own children, creating a cycle. Its possible to break the cycle however, although that needs psychologists usually (because many people cannot comprehend themselves without professional help).

most of these families however are usually in the lower income spectrum and wont go to psychologists, unless they are public free psychologists and it was a judge who ordered them to go...

AcesHigh · Post by **AcesHigh** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:08 am

GIThruster wrote:Like I said, the best argument for cannabis to be illegal is the life of Simon. Here we have this guy who is incredibly brilliant, and yet couldn't finish school, because he's a druggie. He got himself sub-standard work in his field of choice, and couldn't keep his job because he's a druggie. He's living off the dole for 12 years, and spending his life posting like a psychotic, because he's a druggie.

Now imagine the life of Simon without the influence of drugs at all. Who here thinks he couldn't have finished school? Who thinks he would not have found an excellent job and progressed over the years in a rewarding career, doing exciting work and contributing to society instead of collecting money to stay at home and smoke dope?

It doesn't take much imagination to know Simon would have been far better off, and all those around him as well, without the drugs.

thats ridiculous.

I know plenty of pot smokers who HAVE succeeded in life. They do have jobs. Some own companies. I know one who drives a $80 thousand dollars car. And thats talking ONLY about pot users. Because we all know that plenty of cocaine users are quite rich.

I also know intelligent people who dont use drugs and have failed in life, or are jobless, or just miserable for one reason or other.

using Simon´s life, without any proof of cause and relation, and then generalizing it to the whole society is just idiotic.

but then, it seems you like to accuse people without much proof, dont you?

AcesHigh · Post by **AcesHigh** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:12 am

Skipjack wrote:Personally, I am a pastafarian
Satanism is stupid, be it a religion or not. I guess that depends on who you ask. In the US a lot of things count as a religion that shouldnt.

why the eyeblink? Didnt you know we now have scientific proof the Pasta God is real????

they broke the Higgs Boson (god-particle) and what did they find?

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:30 pm

how there can be "atheistic" satanists? If they believe in Satan, they are theistic.

Because in the atheistic satanism the satan is metaphorical and not literally the satan of the christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_satan

The Church of Satan does not worship or support a belief in the Devil or other supernatural entities. "My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason," said Peter Gilmore.[5] Gilmore defines the word Satan: "Satan is a model or a mode of behavior. Satan in Hebrew means 'adversary' or 'opposer'; one who questions."[5]

To my understanding is also theistic satanism which really worships satan, but the official church of satan is atheistic.
It is all BS, either way.

AcesHigh · Post by **AcesHigh** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:03 pm

I see. They do not believe in supernatural stuff but they created a CHURCH. It makes all the sense eh?

I dont believe in Zeus, so, I will create a Church of Zeus.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:20 pm

AcesHigh wrote:
GIThruster wrote:Like I said, the best argument for cannabis to be illegal is the life of Simon. Here we have this guy who is incredibly brilliant, and yet couldn't finish school, because he's a druggie. He got himself sub-standard work in his field of choice, and couldn't keep his job because he's a druggie. He's living off the dole for 12 years, and spending his life posting like a psychotic, because he's a druggie.

Now imagine the life of Simon without the influence of drugs at all. Who here thinks he couldn't have finished school? Who thinks he would not have found an excellent job and progressed over the years in a rewarding career, doing exciting work and contributing to society instead of collecting money to stay at home and smoke dope?

It doesn't take much imagination to know Simon would have been far better off, and all those around him as well, without the drugs.
thats ridiculous.

I know plenty of pot smokers who HAVE succeeded in life.

Yes, but that's irrelevant. The point is Simon's life is a wreck because of his drug habit. Most people who's lives are a wreck, like Simon's, are drug users and most times, the reason their lives are a wreck is the drug use. That is the best argument anyone could have why drugs should be illegal--the wrecked life of Simon.

williatw · Post by **williatw** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:29 pm

GIThruster wrote:Yes, but that's irrelevant. The point is Simon's life is a wreck because of his drug habit. Most people who's lives are a wreck, like Simon's, are drug users and most times, the reason their lives are a wreck is the drug use. That is the best argument anyone could have why drugs should be illegal--the wrecked life of Simon.

Assuming I accept the premise his life is "wrecked" for the sake of discussion, that would be an argument for not doing drugs, not an argument for making them illegal. His being caught thrown in jail wouldn't improve his life..seems to me it would make him more "wrecked". The forty + years of the current drug prohibition didn't stop him or most anyone else inclined from using drugs, so how is it an argument for continuing it? Seems to me thats more of an argument for treating addiction as a medical condition requiring medical treatment, not throwing MSimon in jail. Unless there is some psychological need you and others have to "punish" people doing things you don't like, whether it works or not.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:56 pm

Diogenes has already made a very compelling argument that prohibition does work. Simon has made a bunch of childish and bogus arguments that it does not, but the facts are that prohibition does reduce drug use. If you spend any time in the drug culture at all, you find out that although it appears from inside that "everybody does it", this is entirely not true. Most people don't use illegal drugs because they are illegal. That is the fact of prohibition that you are ignoring. Prohibition works.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:51 pm

I see. They do not believe in supernatural stuff but they created a CHURCH. It makes all the sense eh?

Yeah, I never said it does. But then, there is no religion that does make sense.

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:19 pm

AcesHigh wrote:
MSimon wrote:GIT,

Pay attention. It is quite common for those with unresolved child abuse issues to inflict the abuse on their children. And/or on others. My dad did it to me. It took me until his 60s to straighten him out. I used his love for me to force the issue.
my wife is a psychologist and she works with abused (sexually and also violently abused) children. You are right. Its interesting how many children who hate their parents for what they did to them, grow up and do the same thing to their own children, creating a cycle. Its possible to break the cycle however, although that needs psychologists usually (because many people cannot comprehend themselves without professional help).

most of these families however are usually in the lower income spectrum and wont go to psychologists, unless they are public free psychologists and it was a judge who ordered them to go...

I'm lucky to have an iron will (it runs in the family) and wanted to find out the cause of my problem. So I studied it and studied behavior change methods (mostly esoteric) and resolved my most severe issues.

I think you are generally correct though. It wonders me that the cause of a major portion of our societies ills (drug use, violence, theft etc.) receives so little general attention. Most of what we suffer from socially is a result of unresolved PTSD. I was very careful to never use violent methods of correction of any kind with my kids since PTSD runs in the family. It worked. My kids don't understand me. And if you haven't had long term PTSD people with that affliction are impossible to understand.

And it extends to the political realm:

http://classicalvalues.com/2012/02/the-ptsd-party/

We could end the left as a viable political entity if we dealt better with PTSD.

AcesHigh · Post by **AcesHigh** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:56 am

Skipjack wrote:
I see. They do not believe in supernatural stuff but they created a CHURCH. It makes all the sense eh?
Yeah, I never said it does. But then, there is no religion that does make sense.

agree with you. Except pastafarianism. It does make perfect sense.

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:32 am

Except pastafarianism. It does make perfect sense.

Yeah, that is why I bought a nice set of strainers for my family the other day

MSimon · Post by **MSimon** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:01 pm

AcesHigh wrote:
Skipjack wrote:
I see. They do not believe in supernatural stuff but they created a CHURCH. It makes all the sense eh?
Yeah, I never said it does. But then, there is no religion that does make sense.
agree with you. Except pastafarianism. It does make perfect sense.

My religion makes PERFECT sense. But only to me. Too bad I'm one of the few that treats religion that way.

choff · Post by **choff** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:52 am

Skipjack wrote:
how there can be "atheistic" satanists? If they believe in Satan, they are theistic.
Because in the atheistic satanism the satan is metaphorical and not literally the satan of the christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_satan

The Church of Satan does not worship or support a belief in the Devil or other supernatural entities. "My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason," said Peter Gilmore.[5] Gilmore defines the word Satan: "Satan is a model or a mode of behavior. Satan in Hebrew means 'adversary' or 'opposer'; one who questions."[5]
To my understanding is also theistic satanism which really worships satan, but the official church of satan is atheistic.
It is all BS, either way.

Hypothetically, lets say that an organized crime group controlled international finance, major intelligence networks, fraternal organizations, military-industrial companies, big pharma, big oil, and illegal drugs, and this group had stayed secret for several hundrel years. The control over the membership and discipline would be above and beyond anything in the Mafia.

The members would have to be mind controlled from birth and terrified of the general population and each other. A secret Satanic religion committing acts that would completely horrify your run to the mill garden variety devil worshipper would be essential. With that in mind, let me introduce you to-

Mother of Darkness Castle!

http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=359