We are Doomed! DOOOOOMMED I say!

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:08 pm

Gasoline Prices Are Not Rising, the Dollar Is Falling

Right now, the threat posed by rising gasoline prices is not just to family budgets. An even greater danger is that the government will use escalating oil prices as an excuse to do something stupid.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhi ... s-falling/

hanelyp · Post by **hanelyp** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:30 am

And when the people with dollars saved up start panicking and spending their money like mad, the inflation that has thus far been subtle will strike with vengeance.

JohnFul · Post by **JohnFul** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:25 pm

Ok Digenis,

If the dollar is falling then the price of not only gasoline, but EVERYTHING, is rising. It can be a subtle difference, but one worth noting.

On a seperate note, in 2008 I started bying 1 oz gold coins. When I started, they were around $500. Today, those same coins are worth $1780 each. Did the gold change in value? ... I think not. The dollar has devaluated drasically. QE1, QE2, whatever comes next, they all take their toll; whether our goverment acknowledges it or not.

J

JohnFul · Post by **JohnFul** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:27 pm

Hey Hanelyp,

And when the people with dollars saved up start panicking and spending their money like mad, the inflation that has thus far been subtle will strike with vengeance.

Sounds a lot like Nazi Germany just befor the Russians invaded Berlin...

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:34 pm

High oil prices are among the strongest motors of inflation, at least here. A responsible government would seek ways to buffer against high oil prices, e.g. by buying reserves during times of low prices and then releasing them to the public, undercutting the regular providers in times of high prices. That would force providers to lower their prices again, or they wont make any business. I have yet to see a government that does that though.

KitemanSA · Post by **KitemanSA** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:11 pm

Skipjack wrote:High oil prices are among the strongest motors of inflation, at least here. A responsible government would seek ways to buffer against high oil prices, e.g. by buying reserves during times of low prices and then releasing them to the public, undercutting the regular providers in times of high prices. That would force providers to lower their prices again, or they wont make any business. I have yet to see a government that does that though.

Thank god! What a thing to do, use tax dollars to drive the oil companies out of business!

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:29 pm

Pelosi is blaming the conservative Wall Street crowd for the higher oil prices, despite the dems get more support from Wall Street than do the reps. Risky spin for Pelosi to make.

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wir ... rice-spike

Fact is, oil prices are going higher, and this relates primarily to the fact oil is a commodity that is traded on future expectation. Any/all troubles with oil producing lands or nations with control or seeming control over oil transport, will drive oil prices higher.

The US and Europe are driving sanctions against Iran and Iran is driving economic sanctions against the US and Europe.

Where is the surprise oil prices are going higher? The first time Iran fires a rocket at a passing tanker, they'll skyrocket. That's the way international commodities work. Got nothing to do with Wall Street. If there is any blame to be had, it is that the US has constantly allowed itself to be dependent upon oil from around the world rather than go home grown. It's the ENVIRONMENTALISTS that are to blame--the people whom have limited the US from drilling in it's own waters for the last 35+ years.

http://money.cnn.com/data/commodities/

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:04 pm

Thank god! What a thing to do, use tax dollars to drive the oil companies out of business!

You mean the oil companies that are artificially driving up the prices and thus drive your inflation? I would have NO MERCY on them.

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:18 pm

Skipjack wrote:
Thank god! What a thing to do, use tax dollars to drive the oil companies out of business!
You mean the oil companies that are artificially driving up the prices and thus drive your inflation? I would have NO MERCY on them.

Skippy, oil companies don't drive up oil prices. Oil is a COMMODITY. Its price is set in the international market. Oil companies have no control over this.

If the US generated all its oil here in the States, then the price could indeed be regulated by the US government and there would develop a creative tension between USG and US oil companies, but still the price would not be controlled by the oil companies, but rather by USG.

So in no case can what you're saying ever occur. You need to stop bashing large corporations just because you're too infantile to understand that companies are made up of real people, whom do not deserve to be blamed for what they are not guilty of, simply because it suits your fantasies. You're allowing your emotional preconceptions to dictate blather pretending to be reason.

Besides, I'm sure once a rep presidential candidate is chosen, POTUS will open the US oil reserves and force the price of gas back down, just as did Clinton. That will make people believe OBama is doing a good job when in fact, he'll be busy sacrificing US security interests for his reelection.

What you need to keep in mind when considering commodities trading, is that trade functions based upon simple and specific indicators. Trouble in the Middle East forces prices up, even though Hormuz only sees 20% of the world's oil traffic. Opening the US reserves forces prices down, even though the reserves only hold enough oil for a couple months consumption here in the US. Democrats are extremely willing to abuse the reserve system for their reelection by skewing international pricing by opening the reserve. You should note that the reserve was never intended to skew the international market. It was created to protect Americans from oil cut-offs by groups like OPEC. Clinton is the one who realized he could skew the market for personal gain, and OBama is no less insidious. Expect the reserve will open and prices to fall by June.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 pm

Skipjack wrote:
Thank god! What a thing to do, use tax dollars to drive the oil companies out of business!
You mean the oil companies that are artificially driving up the prices and thus drive your inflation? I would have NO MERCY on them.

Spoken like a true Fascist. Where is the NSDAP when you need them?

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:20 pm

Skippy, oil companies don't drive up oil prices. Oil is a COMMODITY. Its price is set in the international market. Oil companies have no control over this.

Oh pleeeease! Have you actually, ever bothered to compare international gas prices? You think that they are the same all over the world? There are countries that have MUCH, MUCH lower gas prices than the US has. The oil prices are not dictated by the forces of the market, but by a bunch of cronies sitting together deciding where to ask how much.
Of course you can force them to ask less money for gas in the US. All you have to do is give them someone to compete with. Right now the oil market is not a free market. It is controlled by cartells. I am very much against that and I am very much against my country and yours paying more than others at the pump! Why? Because as you say, it drives inflation!

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:42 pm

Skipjack wrote:
Skippy, oil companies don't drive up oil prices. Oil is a COMMODITY. Its price is set in the international market. Oil companies have no control over this.
Oh pleeeease! Have you actually, ever bothered to compare international gas prices? You think that they are the same all over the world?

Skippy, you again know nothing about what you are writing about. Prices at the pump include taxes, and subsidies. There is no way to compare them without a very detailed analysis.

Prices for gas here in the US are climbing, because prices for oil are climbing as result of the conflict between the US and Iran. Each time Iran acts to seem to threaten supply, oil prices rise. There's no way around this because oil prices are set by the international market, and what speculators think supply and demand will be in the short term future.

Do you know anything about finance at all, or is this just more of your blustering ignorance?

ladajo · Post by **ladajo** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:47 pm

On any given day, Skippy is probably paying about 4 times what we pay here. And we are paying about ten times what is paid in certain countries.

So, while you are right, there is also some simplicity in the argument that counters the complexity. Trees make a forest. Trees make stands. Stands make forests. Does that mean a forest must always have stands?

Skipjack · Post by **Skipjack** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:59 pm

One word:
OPEC. Please tell me that this organization is not regulating the oil prices by controling the supply on the market. Yes part of it is speculation, but the speculation is generally (if viewed over longer periods of time and disregarding small spikes) a result of the decisions made by these countries and the other suppliers that simply go with the stream. As a result oil prices are waaay higher than the ought to be. Heck even fracking North Korea pays less for oil than even the US does!
There really is no free oil market, because there is not really any competition. This is why I am a big supporter of fusion and other means to cheaply produce electricity (that can then make electric cars competitive). I want a real competition to the oil monopoly that we all, entire countries are victim to. Until then, we have no choice but to submit to their dictate, even though it makes me want to puke. Our governments wont do anything to show them their limits. They are all bought out by the oil lobbyists anyway (or part of them even).
I want fusion, yesterday!

GIThruster · Post by **GIThruster** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:20 pm

Skippy, what you think oil prices "ought to be" has no real world relation.

Right now, gasoline prices at the pump here in the US, as well as home heating oil, are climbing dramatically in accord with international oil prices. It's the cause of international oil prices that is the real issue.

If gasoline here in the US were climbing without international oil prices climbing, then we might look to huge US corporate interventions, but that's not what we're seeing.

Oil prices around the world are climbing, because Iran is instigating tensions between the US and Europe (whom are both instigating economic sanctions against Iran.) This is all "normal" economics and finance, given Iran is forcing a confrontation with the rest of the world, over their desire to have nuclear weapons.

Analysis therefore starts to turn on whether the bulk of the civilized world is ready to sacrifice Israel, for the sake of Islamic insanity.

Do you really want to start a discussion here about how evil Islam really is and has always been? A religion that teaches people to hate and to kill is currently being empowered by the world's need for fossil fuels. Do you Skippy, have a remedy for this situation that has been coming since the beginning of the industrial age?