Latest drug addict loons.

[williatw]

http://www.cracked.com/video_19094_why- ... okers.html

Basically if you’re white and middle/upper middle class pot is already effectively "legal" so why rock the boat? Because if you’re not the aforementioned and are say a minority male than the WOD is still very much going on as far as pot is concerned; as 700K or so mostly minority males who are annually arrested/charged/convicted/incarcerated when caught with quasi-legal pot would attest to. And even if you are white you still bear allot of the cost of the WOD even if you’re not being jailed much because of it.

[MSimon]

Police: Teen killed woman over $5 pot dispute

The teen is accused of shooting 20-year-old Andrea Lafon in the head as she sat in a car in a North Las Vegas neighborhood. Lafon died the next day.

A witness told police that Lafon refused to let the teen pay $35 for $40 worth of marijuana.

Link

I look back fondly on the days when alcohol used to cause robbery.

Now a days we attribute that to Prohibition and not the alcohol. I wonder if the Prohibitionists will ever wake up to the misery they cause? Probably not.

Funny thing is that the general population is catching on. Prohibition is a very bad deal.

[GIThruster]

Basically if you’re white and middle/upper middle class pot is already effectively "legal" so why rock the boat?

This is the same sort of argument that we always see in support of libertarian ideals but its not true. The key element that libertarians don't understand is that there is a legitimate tension between the needs of the individual and the needs of society. Libertarianism leans all one way and socialism leans all the other. The enlightened position is somewhere between where you're actually focused on the details.

I saw an argument last night where someone was looking at the euthanasia issue and arguing with Stossel, who is a good mouthpiece for libertarianism. The point that the guest made was that since we've had euthanasia legalized in Oregon--twenty years now, so we have real stats--we've seen a 41% increase in suicide. The issue is that society has a vested interest in social behavior, and when we legally endorse positions that are antagonistic toward views of humanity that promote healthy social function, society stoops to the lowest common denominator. So when we legalize prostitution, drug use, suicide, etc., what we in effect say is our society does not recognize nor endorse the value of humanity. This is far short of the view that society needs to recognize humans as "sacred" but that society needs at least to expect civil behavior. When an unbalanced view takes hold that individual liberty should know no bounds, what we get is this rush to the bottom, and for example, explosive suicide rates. The same is true of drugs. When you legalize them, you're in effect endorsing that behavior and that behavior is at odds with what makes a civilized society.

[williatw]

Basically if you’re white and middle/upper middle class pot is already effectively "legal" so why rock the boat?

The same is true of drugs. When you legalize them, you're in effect endorsing that behavior and that behavior is at odds with what makes a civilized society.

So if you are white middle/upper middle class person you get the perceived benefit of outlawing drugs; sending the message of societies' disapproval. You don't have to however pay the price of the devastating effect of the 700K a year of mostly minority males of the arrest/charges/incarceration etc. That doesn't affect you much the negative consequences of "sending this message" so for people like you on balance it is a good thing. Probably not too many no knock warrants happening where you and Diogenes live, probably nice and quiet; so for you why rock the boat? Well as I have said before we will see what a few more years of exponentially increasing asset forfeiture does for your little calculation of benefits vs cost.

[williatw]

I saw an argument last night where someone was looking at the euthanasia issue and arguing with Stossel, who is a good mouthpiece for libertarianism. The point that the guest made was that since we've had euthanasia legalized in Oregon--twenty years now, so we have real stats--we've seen a 41% increase in suicide

So in order to arguably decease the suicide rate we need to repeal euthanasia; and the poor terminally ill schmuck who has to suffer those last few months of unbearable pain hopeless discomfort with out much relief (other than being drugged out of his mind), well no price is to great to send the right message provided someone other than thee has to pay the price.

[GIThruster]

That's a nonsense remark. Making suicide illegal doesn't stop anyone from killing themself. It merely causes us to think differently about killing ourselves. There has always been suicide and there will always be, and people don't need help with it. It's profoundly easy. What is not easy, is what is left behind by those who kill themselves. That is actually the mess legalization is meant to address and it does this by making suicide socially acceptable when it should never be.

[williatw]

That's a nonsense remark. Making suicide illegal doesn't stop anyone from killing themself. It merely causes us to think differently about killing ourselves. There has always been suicide and there will always be, and people don't need help with it. It's profoundly easy. What is not easy, is what is left behind by those who kill themselves. That is actually the mess legalization is meant to address and it does this by making suicide socially acceptable when it should never be.

The primary purpose of legalized suicide (euthanasia) is for the terminally ill to humanely and painlessly terminate their lives if they so choose. Yes in theory it is a lowering of the societal threshold on suicide from the catholic doctrine of it (suicide) being a "mortal sin". Yes it could be used (by some) to justify suicide on demand for any reason. Society will just have to cope with that IMHO; if society cares so much about people killing themselves maybe it should do more to address the underlying reasons why people kill themselves rather than hoping to deter it by ostracizing those who do it. Ostracizing/abusing/bullying for one reason or another is probably the biggest reason why the non-terminally ill want to kill themselves in the first place.

[GIThruster]

The primary purpose of legalized suicide (euthanasia) is for the terminally ill to humanely and painlessly terminate their lives if they so choose.

Rubbish. People can humanely and painlessly terminate regardless of the law and always have.

Yes in theory it is a lowering of the societal threshold on suicide from the catholic doctrine of it (suicide) being a "mortal sin".

It's got nothing to do with Catholic doctrine. I defy you to find a single primary source that shows what you're talking about. Catholicism had very little impact on the formation of this country, and suicide is illegal in many places where Catholicism never had any significant influence. You're making up nonsense. These same kinds of nonsense arguments are often made about things like prostitution, and drug use and incest, and they have no basis in fact. The matter is one of common sense. When you legalize a behavior it has no social sanction against it. What we need are more sanctions to build a more stabile society. If we'd return to the days of making adultery illegal, we'd have healthier families, and it is in society's vested interest to have healthier families.

[williatw]

The primary purpose of legalized suicide (euthanasia) is for the terminally ill to humanely and painlessly terminate their lives if they so choose.

Rubbish. People can humanely and painlessly terminate regardless of the law and always have.

Okay I will bite....exactly what do you think is the primary purpose of legalized suicide, i.e. euthanasia?

[paperburn1]

easy, ask Jack Kevorkian

[GIThruster]

The primary purpose of legalized suicide (euthanasia) is for the terminally ill to humanely and painlessly terminate their lives if they so choose.

Rubbish. People can humanely and painlessly terminate regardless of the law and always have.

Okay I will bite....exactly what do you think is the primary purpose of legalized suicide, i.e. euthanasia?

It is really just people seeking approval for what they want to do. It's no different than the gay community fighting not for equal legal rights but for the term "married". They want approval for their behavior. In the case of suicide, the approval is for the sake of the survivors surrounding the person offing herself. Suicide victims want to believe they're doing nothing wrong.

Fact is anyone can jump off a bridge, take too many sleeping pills or sit in the car with the motor running and the garage door closed. People don't need help with the act of killing themselves. It's very easy to do, painlessly and with 100% certainty you'll die. Drive the car into a stone overpass support on the highway at 70MPH, and you'll die instantly. You don't need anyone's approval for this, and giving approval is what caused the suicide rate to go up 41% in Oregon.

[williatw]

Okay I will bite....exactly what do you think is the primary purpose of legalized suicide, i.e. euthanasia?

It is really just people seeking approval for what they want to do. It's no different than the gay community fighting not for equal legal rights but for the term "married". They want approval for their behavior. In the case of suicide, the approval is for the sake of the survivors surrounding the person offing herself. Suicide victims want to believe they're doing nothing wrong.

Oregon passed its “Death with Dignity Act” in 1997, which gave adults in Oregon who are terminally ill the right to obtain lethal medications from their doctors in order to hasten their own deaths. Since the law was enacted, a little under 1200 people have had prescriptions written and about 750 have used the medications to commit suicide

http://guardianlv.com/2014/08/assisted- ... es-rising/

[GIThruster]

Yes, I was living in Oregon when they passed the law. What is your point?

[williatw]

Yes, I was living in Oregon when they passed the law. What is your point?

My point?!...that the primary purpose of legal assisted suicide is for terminally ill people to have that option if they wished. Which you described as "rubbish". The law passed explicitly states that is the purpose. The increase is doubtlessly caused by the terminally ill (in and out of state) making use of that option. I don't see what the moral dilemma is on that. The same increase is happening in Switzerland as the terminally ill travel there to exercise their legal right to end their lives; so what, that's their business they're the ones terminally ill let them decide the best option.

[GIThruster]

Yes, I was living in Oregon when they passed the law. What is your point?

My point?!...that the primary purpose of legal assisted suicide is for terminally ill people to have that option if they wished. Which you described as "rubbish". The law passed explicitly states that is the purpose. The increase is doubtlessly caused by the terminally ill (in and out of state) making use of that option. I don't see what the moral dilemma is on that. The same increase is happening in Switzerland as the terminally ill travel there to exercise their legal right to end their lives; so what, that's their business they're the ones terminally ill let them decide the best option.

William, to not be obtuse. It is unbecoming to pretend to be a moron.