Liberal view of Government.

[MSimon]

In their culture, it is a horrible insult for a Man to be ordered to do anything by a woman. It is easy to see why they would hate us for attempting to impose "our" liberal morality on their culture.

And we are insulted by their jihadis. I guess that makes us even.

In any case we are just trying to bring them into the modern world.

"To me it seems certain that the fatalistic teachings of Muhammad and the utter degradation of women is the outstanding cause for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have kept on developing" -- General George S. Patton: The War as I Knew it

We are playing the long game and working to destroy their culture (or at least some parts of it). We did the same in Japan. Yes it makes things difficult at first. It will make things easier in the long run.

At the very least it will "corrupt" the youth.

[Skipjack]

As is India.

Well you are aware of the fact that since the end of the collonial occupation, India had and still has close ties with Russia, right?
I would not call their caste system exactly Brittish either.
Edit, actually it is Brittish to some extent. My bad. Still their Hindu religion is not very western. Their lifestyle is not either.

And yet culturally America is a British country.

Uuuuhm, when exactly did that happen? Where is your queen, again?
Where is your house of lords? Do you enjoy plum pudding? Haggis?
The only thing I see in common is the (ab-) use of the English language. It could have ended up being German too, btw (AFAIK it was a rather close call on that one).
I would say the US has more in common with France and Germany than the Britts.

We are playing the long game and working to destroy their culture (or at least some parts of it).

And they are playing the long game with their wifes pregnant bellies. I dont really see a chance of us winning that one...

[MSimon]

I can't see how throwing the Sunni's out of work because the Shia's left accomplishes anything useful.

Attitudes matter.

You can't build a different type of army if the officers are not on board with the new style.

Now maybe we should have bought (pensioned) them off from the first. But that was no more popular in America than having competent Nazis running Germany post WW2. Lots of screaming about that in the USA at the time.

It took the debacle to change American attitudes. (or at least promote indifference).

Anything having to do with Saddam was tainted.

[MSimon]

And they are playing the long game with their wifes pregnant bellies. I dont really see a chance of us winning that one...

Iran's birth rate is below replacement. The rest of the Moslem countries are not far behind.

BTW American law is derived from British law. As is American commercial culture.

And yeah. It is too bad the Brits are giving up their culture. But the Americans and Ozzies still live.

[Skipjack]

Afghanistan, Syria, Jordan, Pakistan, Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Mali, Niger, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Qatar, Malaysia, Oman and so on and so on. They all have a much higher fertility rate than even the US (which is among the western countries with the highest fertility rate).
You are of course naming only one, though prominent example.
Knowing that Israel also has a comparably high fertility rate, I wonder what your agenda is when you deny this problem.

[TallDave]

Humanists had the humanity to create a just and caring society

Careful. The secular humanist Communists killed 100 million people in the 20th, all in the name of a just and caring society.

[Skipjack]

BTW American law is derived from British law. As is American commercial culture.
And yeah. It is too bad the Brits are giving up their culture.

Well not all of american law is derived from British law, I am sure.
Your libel laws are much different, e.g.
Your legislative is entirely different, your executive is different. Your military structure may be simillar, but so is Austrian as well.
I dont know much about the commercial culture that you are refering to, but from my personal experience this is very simillar everywhere in the western world nowadays.
Your cuisine has more in common with French or German cuisine than English.
Yor american football is simillar to Rugby, that is true. But then your culture is a mishmash of everything from Europe, you will find some British in there if you look long enough.
My wife is from Pennsylvania and that looks very German to me. In San Antonio, Texas German cultural heritage was evident on every street corner (literally as in street names). Yet, I would not say that the US is a German country.

[Skipjack]

Careful. The secular humanist Communists killed 100 million people in the 20th, all in the name of a just and caring society.

I would not call the Communists humanists, but that may just be me.

[TallDave]

Not all of the consequences. We have already replaced a moderate Supreme Court Justice with a Far left nut. Harry Reid is reportedly enacting provisions in his Health Care bill (specifically the "Death Panels") that will require a 2/3rds super majority to remove. (A Virtual impossibility) And the money is being rolled off the Printing presses like toilet paper in the bathroom. We are borrowing and spending ourselves into poverty, and the Liberals are enriching their friends from the public trough as we speak. This money will be used against us in the future.

Well, the bill hasn't passed yet. And remember, leftist politicians are the victims of their policies' failures: if the bill does pass, it may destroy the Dems for decades. Not in 150 years has something so unpopular been passed on a party-line vote.

Read this article from Ron Bailey. This is where we’re eventually going to end up; as with Communism, the only question is how much misguided socialist failure we have to endure first before people wake up. The central lesson of the 20th century is that you cannot wring efficiencies from an economy using central planning, and the effort only creates misery, poverty, and chronic shortages.

[TallDave]

Careful. The secular humanist Communists killed 100 million people in the 20th, all in the name of a just and caring society.

I would not call the Communists humanists, but that may just be me.

And I don't consider the people who committed atricities in Christ's name to be Christians. But they called themselves Christians, and Communists called themselves secular humanists.

[Skipjack]

And I don't consider the people who committed atricities in Christ's name to be Christians.

OK, so the popes that were responsible for that were not a christian?
Interesting ideas you have here...
In any case it does not matter. Any religion is wrong, no matter what it calls itself. Christians, jews, muslims, communisty, national socialists, budhists, hindus, they are all wrong!
It is all bullshit. It was all made up centuries ago to compensate for peoples lack of knowledge and understanding for the workings of the universe.

[TallDave]

And I don't consider the people who committed atricities in Christ's name to be Christians.

OK, so the popes that were responsible for that were not a christian?

Well, I wouldn't call them Christians if they were committing atrocities. Christ's position was pretty clear on that.

Interesting ideas you have here...

Thanks, but I can't really take credit...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_reformation

The Protestant Reformation began as an attempt to doctrinally reform the Catholic Church, affected by Western European Catholics who opposed what they perceived as false doctrines and ecclesiastic malpractice — especially the teaching and the sale of indulgences, and simony, the selling and buying of clerical offices — that the reformers saw as evidence of the systemic corruption of the church’s hierarchy, which included the Pope.

Anyways my point is just that secular humanism wasn't any better than Christianity. Atrocities were done in the names of both.

[Skipjack]

I am a protestant (Luthers teachings) and was raised with this information.
What they let fall under the table was that the protestants were also burning witches, e.g. It also always takes two to fight a war. The protestants fought a 30 year long war with the catholics (as I posted earlier). It lead to famine and death throughout central Europe. People were killed in masses on both sides.

[alexjrgreen]

And I don't consider the people who committed atricities in Christ's name to be Christians.

OK, so the popes that were responsible for that were not a christian?

Well, I wouldn't call them Christians if they were committing atrocities. Christ's position was pretty clear on that.

"34 Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

Matthew 10:34-36 (New American Standard Bible)

[TDPerk]

Alexjrgreem quotes the Bble:

"34 Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

Matthew 10:34-36 (New American Standard Bible)"

To be troubled by this, or to think it means atrocities are called for by Christ, is to to presume it is an atrocity to do your utmost to see that what is right carries the day. A corollary to that pernicious viewpoint is the idea that we cannot know with enough certainty what is right, to know when or where to level the guns, whether rhetorical or deadly.

To that pernicious, and all too pervasive viewpoint, I make these quotes in reply:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!” Samuel Adams

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Robert A. Heinlein

Also, both in reply to the above imputation by Alexgreenjr--that Christ endorsed atrocity--and to an earlier assertion (nevermind by whom, it does not signify) made on this forum to the effect that "Hitler thought that way", made in reply to the notion that political violence is quite justifiable in many cases, there is this in abject refutation:

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation..." Declaration of Independence as adopted by the Continental Congress