Welfare in action.

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MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

chris,

This is for you:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/201 ... -help.html
WASHINGTON, DC - Congress is considering sweeping legislation which will provide new benefits for many Americans. The Americans With No Abilities Act (AWNAA) is being hailed as a major legislative goal by advocates of the millions of Americans who lack any real skills or ambition.
Follow the links for even more goodness.

BTW Chris - D's idea was better than the script that was formerly in use. Now at least all the money goes to the food corps and indirectly farm subsidies as it was originally intended.

Simon
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

chrismb
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Post by chrismb »

whereas our labour government *has* actually managed to get millions of useless people into civil service "employment" by burying it in other Acts with less obvious titles.

y'see - we actually DO stuff you think is a joke!!

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

I'm stll waiting for your Ministry of Silly Walks. :lol:

Monty? Monty? Hello, are you there?

Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes »

chrismb wrote:Just hold them horses a mo. I'm not all judgemental here. I'm only judgemental 5 times a day and I had used them all up by the time I read that. I was critiqing Diogenese approach of not doing anything about it. I want to make it quite quite clear I am not at all judgemental towards dimwitted sponging unemployed layabout tax-dodging freeloaders. They are what they are.

No, sir, the critique was at Diogenes and now we have a much clearer picture of the motives of kicking off this thread. So the card was an idea from Diogenes? So this thread was nothing to do with a motive of irritation or annoyance over spending taxpayer$, it is all to do with GUILT!!! :lol: No, Diogenes, we will not give you absolution for your sins here!
I don't feel guilty about telling the Rep the idea. I feel disgusted that they mucked it up so badly. It's Still an improvement over the food stamps they used to hand out. To be fair, it was a friend of mine that thought of the idea. I was just the first one to mention it to the Rep. As Josh has pointed out earlier, there is a lot of fraud going on in the Food stamp program. Nowadays, instead of selling the food stamps for drugs, people sell the card and PIN number for drugs. Putting the person's picture on the front of the card would have made that MUCH more difficult. They would have actually had to go to the trouble of going to the Grocery store and BUYING the groceries before they could trade them for Drugs.

Adding that little bit of work to the equation would have dramatically changed the outcome. The Dealers wouldn't want the hassle, and the users wouldn't want the work or the delay.

In any case, I thought it was peculiar that the two times I went shopping (which is extremely rare for me) I managed to get behind three different people all using and abusing the state Welfare card. I have since talked to other people who pointed out that it was shortly after the begining of the month, so people's cards were "charged up" and ready to use. They say the stores are always inundated with Welfare cards around the begining of the month.

As I have mentioned before, I don't think the government should give poor people money to manage. They should give them staple foods from a warehouse, thus obviating the purchase of a bunch of crap that isn't any good for them and likewise eliminating the purchase of overpriced or excessively expensive (steak, lobster, etc.) items. There should be SOME motivation for people to want to get off of the State Dole. Having to show up at a state run warehouse and receive your Staple (no frills) groceries ought to provide that motivation.

The system we have now persists not because its a good system, but because it has such a large constituency. The grocers love it because they sell the merchandise,(Business) The Welfare recepients love it because it's easy and simple and convenient, the beauracrats like it because it's a large convoluted system requiring lots of beauracrats to run, and the politicians like it because it pleases so many people that can vote. The only people it doesn't please are the taxpayers, who are divided by ignorance and lethargic about fixing it.

A state warehouse based system would draw the ire of all the grocers AND the welfare recepients. (A considerable constituency)

KitemanSA
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Post by KitemanSA »

Not TOO long ago, a city was having trouble paying for all the ambulance rides demanded by the indegent to get themselve to an emergency room. The city had to pay something like $250 a ride. They decided to make the rider pay $5 out of the $250. Ya know what happened? The indegent started taking $7 taxi rides instead.

Maybe the welfare recipients should be required to pay 5% to 10% of the food cost in cash. Maybe then they would start shopping effectively.

pfrit
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Post by pfrit »

KitemanSA wrote:Not TOO long ago, a city was having trouble paying for all the ambulance rides demanded by the indegent to get themselve to an emergency room. The city had to pay something like $250 a ride. They decided to make the rider pay $5 out of the $250. Ya know what happened? The indegent started taking $7 taxi rides instead.

Maybe the welfare recipients should be required to pay 5% to 10% of the food cost in cash. Maybe then they would start shopping effectively.
Personally, I have always believed that ALL forms of government need based aid should come in the form of a single (possibly monthly or weekly) cash payment. If you waste the money, it is on you. It would be CONSIDERABLY cheaper and easier to administer and would teach finacial responsibilty to the reciepients. Think negative income tax. If a person is starving under this system, they would be either a victim of crime or legally not an adult.
What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

They say the stores are always inundated with Welfare cards around the begining of the month.
Also at a couple of hours before midnight on the days the cards run out.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

MSimon
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Post by MSimon »

They should give them staple foods from a warehouse, thus obviating the purchase of a bunch of crap that isn't any good for them and likewise eliminating the purchase of overpriced or excessively expensive (steak, lobster, etc.) items.
Possibly. But then you have people with food allergies. I hate one size fits all government programs.

In any case the free food program is the least of our worries. Corporate welfare is larger by an order of magnitude. Or more.

I remember a discussion between a socialist and a libertarian. The socialist said the government should provide everyone enough to eat. The libertarian said - how about seeing that the people get what they want to eat. The socialist admitted that it was a harder problem.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.

Josh Cryer
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Post by Josh Cryer »

Diogenes wrote:
Edit: (I found a picture of the New cards.)
Image
Didn't know they changed the card. I guess they did it to give people a sense of security / not be embarrassed. I've seen those several times before, I thought they were some sort of "green" debit card.

I thought they were blue before because Wal-Mart gift cards are blue and it's easy enough to mistake them for another.
Science is what we have learned about how not to fool ourselves about the way the world is.

choff
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Post by choff »

This is a joke right, early April Fools day?
CHoff

BenTC
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Post by BenTC »

jnaujok wrote:There's no noble intentions there, the computerized checkout excludes those items from the Food Stamp eligible goods. In other words, the register knows you can't use your Uncle Sam Card to buy those items and forces you to pay cash.
Thanks for the clarification.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes »

choff wrote:This is a joke right, early April Fools day?

What is the funny part?

Diogenes
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Post by Diogenes »

Yesterday I had some Friends come up from Austin Texas to do some hunting. (Both Engineers) They were in a cabin near the town of Apache, and asked me to come out and see them. One of my friends likes his Jim Beam, and suggested I stop and pick up a bottle before I headed out. (It's about 30 miles away.)

I stopped at a liquor store and grabbed a bottle and got in line behind a large, heavyset women at the checkout register. She seemed to be having trouble making up her mind whether she wanted a pint, or a half pint of Seagrams. (not the cheap stuff) She finally made up her mind and cautiously handed the man a ten dollar bill. The only reason I noticed her was because she was taking too d@mn long to make up her mind and I was in a hurry. I paid for my purchase and left.

I decided I needed some gasoline, so I stopped at a convenience store to fill up. After filling up, I recalled that my friend also wanted a 12 pack of diet coke to mix with the Jim Beam, and so I went into the store to get it.
I grabbed a 12 pack out of the fridge and got in line behind a women at the checkout. It was the SAME woman that was at the liquor store. As I waited in line, I noticed she was buying two bottles of some sort of fruit juice, maybe orange juice. I thought to myself "That's what she's going to mix with the Seagrams." :)

I wondered if she was going to be as reluctant purchasing this stuff as she was at the liquor store. She then pulls out this brown looking credit card. I decide I needed a better look, so I stepped forward to see it better. It had a picture of Will Rogers on it. She swipes it, then punches in some numbers on the little keypad. Yup, she's using a welfare card to buy the mixer for her drinks.

I think to myself once again, yeah, that was a really good idea letting welfare recipients manage money that they didn't earn.

IntLibber
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Post by IntLibber »

MSimon wrote:
They should give them staple foods from a warehouse, thus obviating the purchase of a bunch of crap that isn't any good for them and likewise eliminating the purchase of overpriced or excessively expensive (steak, lobster, etc.) items.
Possibly. But then you have people with food allergies. I hate one size fits all government programs.

In any case the free food program is the least of our worries. Corporate welfare is larger by an order of magnitude. Or more.

I remember a discussion between a socialist and a libertarian. The socialist said the government should provide everyone enough to eat. The libertarian said - how about seeing that the people get what they want to eat. The socialist admitted that it was a harder problem.
Food allergies are a signal of unfitness.

Worse than corporate welfare is government employee union welfare (also known as the stimulus package).

IntLibber
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Post by IntLibber »

BenTC wrote:
jnaujok wrote:There's no noble intentions there, the computerized checkout excludes those items from the Food Stamp eligible goods. In other words, the register knows you can't use your Uncle Sam Card to buy those items and forces you to pay cash.
Thanks for the clarification.
Except many stores will falsify the food item and double charge the card, giving half the balance to the cardholder in cash. There was a nice expose on fox a few weeks ago showing several store owner/managers getting arrested in a sting operation where the undercover "customer" would buy beer and smokes, pay with the welfare card, ask for 90 back, and the manager would charge the card 100 TWICE, giving 90 to the undercover agent and pocketing the other 100....

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