Please visit both of them every day, if it is possible. Maybe it makes us to be more friendly.
Parroting each others' or any news outfit isn't how it'll happen. Real dialog, i.e. getting down to the bottom of disagreements, down to the real facts, without any taboos or hidden agendas whatsoever. That's how you can truly cross the unfriendly divide.
Betruger,
That has been the whole point of the discussion. Maybe you should read the posts.
Yes there has been some snipes back and forth, but the core content is about critical analysis and independant thought.
I wasn't castigating anyone, just trying to articulate transparently to Aslan why everyone putting their cards on the table is the way forward, rather than comparing who's got the best news media or government or whatever. If he is just goose stepping to whatever beat his gov drums, by principle there won't be any actual dialog.
I have been reading the posts. Read the whole thread since post 1. Didn't get a reply to the one point I thought I'd bounce off Aslan, since he invited one and all to contribute.
Critical analysis and independent thought is exactly what I mean.
I re-read your post and see the meaning you intended. I did not get that on first pass. Sorry. I guess I was pre-disposed.
I think our young Lion is still learning that just becuse you see something, it does not make it true.
I wonder if he has taken the time to read the latest IAEA report that I gave him the link to. it certainly raises some questions. I also think it is interesting that he thinks the IAEA is the puppet of the US, like Israel is as well. Of course at other times the Iranian rhetoric is that the US is Israel's puppet. I guess they should pick one and go with it. Of course, given that neither is true...I guess that is not important...
Edit: bad typing corrected
Last edited by ladajo on Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diogenes wrote:4 - Who encouraged Saddam to attack Kuwait?
We did not encourage Saddam to attack Kuwait. Through our incompetent Ambassador to Iraq, and as a result of our "wishywashy" President George H.W. Bush, Saddam was led to believe that the United States would not be motivated to act if he should do so.
It was only after the fact of the invasion, and a stern lecturing to President George H.W. Bush by British Prime Minister Margret Thatcher, that Bush decided to subsequently oppose it.
To emphasize the point, we did not "encourage" it, but we also didn't "discourage" it when we should have.
If US ambassador did not show green light to Saddam, Saddam never attack Kuwait, then US soldiers, for 12 years, had no excuse for the presence in the Iraq and MD.
There is an old saying in this country.
"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity."
You may see it as an "evil plan" but I see it as the blundering of idiots.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Diogenes wrote:1 - Who gave money and weapons to the Taliban and Al Qaeda's war against the Russians?
My Understanding is that We did and You did. It was in our mutual interest and\or philosophy to do so.
I'm sure that you know. Iran could not help AQ, because of presence of Russia. But US, why not!!!
They could not do so overtly, but through the back door, such as money and arms brought over on pack mules and such? Certainly they could.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Diogenes wrote:4 - Who encouraged Saddam to attack Kuwait?
We did not encourage Saddam to attack Kuwait. Through our incompetent Ambassador to Iraq, and as a result of our "wishywashy" President George H.W. Bush, Saddam was led to believe that the United States would not be motivated to act if he should do so.
It was only after the fact of the invasion, and a stern lecturing to President George H.W. Bush by British Prime Minister Margret Thatcher, that Bush decided to subsequently oppose it.
To emphasize the point, we did not "encourage" it, but we also didn't "discourage" it when we should have.
If US ambassador did not show green light to Saddam, Saddam never attack Kuwait, then US soldiers, for 12 years, had no excuse for the presence in the Iraq and MD.
You completely do not understand why Saddam attacked Kuwait then. He did it because he truly felt that it belonged to Iraq and was a "renegade province". In fact, the US ambassador told him not to attack, but did so in a really amateur way. She was not our sharpest knife. Plus, he was already pre-disposed. Not his first error, nor his last. For example, he did not believe that we would invade in 2003. He truly thought it all a bluff.
The French kept telling him we would never invade.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Diogenes wrote:8 - Who is responsible for the assassination in Iran and 10,000 killed in the last thirty years ?
Which assassination?
May be following text give you a shock.
America and Israel more than 30 years, gave money and weapons To the group of hypocrites and the People's Mojahedin in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, to carry out terrorist operations in Iran. The terrorists have assassinated more than 10,000 people in Iran.
I am aware that there are dissident groups in Iran, and I am aware that they are killing people. Over 30 years, I do not doubt that the number could be 10,000 or more. That they could be funded by Israel is also possible, for I can very well see it as in Israels best interest to sow discord in a country that makes no attempt to hide the fact that it wants Israel destroyed.
Were I Israel, I would do the same thing. A small investment would pay great dividends if it eventually brought down an enemy without fighting a war.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Diogenes wrote:1 - Who gave money and weapons to the Taliban and Al Qaeda's war against the Russians?
My Understanding is that We did and You did. It was in our mutual interest and\or philosophy to do so.
I'm sure that you know. Iran could not help AQ, because of presence of Russia. But Us, why not!!!
Russia's war in Afghanistan started in 1979. Al Qaeda formeded in 1988-'89. The Taliban formed in 1996.
The US did not arm either Al Qaeda nor the Taliban for its war with Russia because there was no Al Qaeda nor Taliban at the time. Both the question, and all answers to it, are wrong.
A quibble. Lack of an official name did not make the group nonexistent. The US Funded the mujaheddin in Afghanistan, and some of them eventually combined with others to form what later became Al Qaeda. I have little doubt that some of our funding went to what eventually became Al Quaeda. Bin Laden himself fought with the mujaheddin.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Diogenes wrote:15 - Who is responsible for the assassination of Iranian researchers?
1. The Israelis. I find this plausible.
2. A renegade branch of the Iranian government. I also find this plausible.
I am pretty certain we (U.S.) didn't do it. We currently don't have the necessary amount of courage or good sense to do such a thing.
Dear Diogenes, I believe that US did not.
Unfortunately, Israeli government do all of them.
That is a widespread belief, however I have read an article explaining that it could have been the result of internal conflicts between different branches of the Iranian government. There are those within the Iranian government that believe pursuing nuclear weapons is a bad idea and that it will be dangerous to Iran.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —
Diogenes wrote:15 - Who is responsible for the assassination of Iranian researchers?
1. The Israelis. I find this plausible.
2. A renegade branch of the Iranian government. I also find this plausible.
I am pretty certain we (U.S.) didn't do it. We currently don't have the necessary amount of courage or good sense to do such a thing.
Dear Diogenes, I believe that US did not.
Unfortunately, Israeli government do all of them.
That is a widespread belief, however I have read an article explaining that it could have been the result of internal conflicts between different branches of the Iranian government. There are those within the Iranian government that believe pursuing nuclear weapons is a bad idea and that it will be dangerous to Iran.
And then there was my recent bit on demographic collapse. To which I have added another comment or two.
Engineering is the art of making what you want from what you can get at a profit.
